Tedious and boring.

[WooD]

My team finish second.
Next season i am fielding the SAME team. I did not buy a single player, and i did not sell anyone. Cohesion is good, morale is excellent, my support is excellent.

Next season.... Tactics not working. Every team i play is real madrid, regardless of their players. I can outclass them in every part of the field. I will still lose 1-2 after they score the game winner in the 85+ min.
Their 10 pace guy is running laps around my 18 pace guy.
My 22 goal scoring forward isnt scoring, my stellar defense from last season are goofing around being outclasses by crap(Literally)

I wonder what script i activated when i performed good the previous season that is making the game take a dump on me now.

Ive played this game on and off since the 90's.
And its never felt more scripted. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ event activated.
Sometimes i wonder if i am supposed to watch the entire 90 minute game because its hard to adjust when there are no highlights. My team isnt producing anything.
Am i even the manager? Cause when i start the first few seasons are stupid easy. Im pretty sure if i start over my tactics will work and i will win again.

Thumbs down. Not buying fm25.

[WooD]

Oh, i forgot to mention how fun it is to fix morale by praising your players doing well in practise or praise their conduct for a double boose week after week. That is probably the most fun ive had in a computer game for many years.

[DeathStroke]

teams adjust their tactics after time to counter you. if your reputation has grown since the first season then teams that were using positive tactics against you might start using cautious ones , you probably need to make some adjustments of your own. you cant just play the same way every game over and over for years. and if you are conceding late regularly again thats probably on you and your tactics . there is no scripting , theres just a ton of RNG going on in the background that requires a lot of constant balancing .

[WooD]

Originally posted by DeathStroke:

teams adjust their tactics after time to counter you. if your reputation has grown since the first season then teams that were using positive tactics against you might start using cautious ones , you probably need to make some adjustments of your own. you cant just play the same way every game over and over for years. and if you are conceding late regularly again thats probably on you and your tactics . there is no scripting , theres just a ton of RNG going on in the background that requires a lot of constant balancing .

So tactics make my back4 and BWM play like crap?
How exactly does that work? Defend is defend.
Tactics make pace9 outrun pace16?
Heading 4 beat heading 15 for a goal?
While the 17 finishing AF is missing missing missing?
Not buying it. This game is not that advanced.

I have no doubt in my mind that switching tactic to something else is going to fix it. Cause ive done that and yea..... But its tedious and boring.
Ive already delegated most of the other things like media, contracts for staff etc cause its tedious and boring.
praising is horrible. Doing that every week for 20 players is not my idea of having fun in a game.
Talking to unhappy players is horrible cause it lacks the options you need.

[Andy]

Originally posted by WooD:

So tactics make my back4 and BWM play like crap?
How exactly does that work? Defend is defend.
Tactics make pace9 outrun pace16?
Heading 4 beat heading 15 for a goal?
While the 17 finishing AF is missing missing missing?
Not buying it. This game is not that advanced.

There's some randomness there aswell, the way your talking then there would be no variation in real life. As Mbappe can out sprint everyone and no defender can catch him he must score every game..
Heading can be about positioning rather than just 2 great heavy lumps strong arming each other from a standing jump. Even Micheal Owen scored a few headers.
Praising players is there to build a relationship between the manager and the players. That's an important part of real life managers.
There might be better ways to simulate that in game, but there should be something. As, it's part of the personality of managers, some more aloof, some more approachable and involved.
As for players suddenly playing poorly, i think Pep wants a word. Best manager in the world, finest tactician (arguably) with some of the best players money can buy and in the last 6 games they've lost 5 and drew 1.
It happens to the best of them sometimes.

[DeathStroke]

Originally posted by WooD:

Originally posted by DeathStroke:

teams adjust their tactics after time to counter you. if your reputation has grown since the first season then teams that were using positive tactics against you might start using cautious ones , you probably need to make some adjustments of your own. you cant just play the same way every game over and over for years. and if you are conceding late regularly again thats probably on you and your tactics . there is no scripting , theres just a ton of RNG going on in the background that requires a lot of constant balancing .

So tactics make my back4 and BWM play like crap?
How exactly does that work? Defend is defend.
Tactics make pace9 outrun pace16?
Heading 4 beat heading 15 for a goal?
While the 17 finishing AF is missing missing missing?
Not buying it. This game is not that advanced.

I have no doubt in my mind that switching tactic to something else is going to fix it. Cause ive done that and yea..... But its tedious and boring.
Ive already delegated most of the other things like media, contracts for staff etc cause its tedious and boring.
praising is horrible. Doing that every week for 20 players is not my idea of having fun in a game.
Talking to unhappy players is horrible cause it lacks the options you need.

yes tactics can make your defence suffer . . . depends on what kind of goals you have suddenly found yourself conceeding more then you did before when it was all " working " . One thing to keep in mind that just because a striker has 15 finishing does NOT mean he will shoot like a 15 every single time , there is RNG , just like how sometimes a guy with only 5 finishing will fluke a world-class goal . The game essentially rolls a dice with a ton of different factors being considered before it decides the result . His hidden stats like consistency and form have an effect , pressure if its a big game ect, but also his composure , technique , decisions ect. Same for a defender, hes not always going to out jump and win every ball in the air even if hes got reasonable stats for it. Height also plays a part in jumping , even if their jump stat is only average if they are tall they will still be pretty decent in the air, or maybe his concentration is average and he simply wasnt paying attention to the ball or his player he should have been marking . A player doesnt always run at their top speed immediately either, acceleration takes time , and running with the ball at your feet is slower than running without. you shouldnt be praising the players every single week over and over, unless you are also going to be regularly harsh and keep them from getting complacent . overconfidence is bad and leads to upsets if it goes on too long. Maybe your tactics just arent that good either. lots of people just want to breeze through without doing all the hard/boring ♥♥♥♥ in-between matches , ( even media stuff has an effect on form and morale ) thats the stuff you need to do if you want to win all the time . . if you dont want to do that then you need to accept your results as they are .

[Tekay]

Even in Real Life managers adjust their tactics over the years and with the players they have. Their opponents learn their tactics, and learn how to play against them.

So if you dont want to adjust, accept the suffering, or download an op meta tactic

[Sam]

It sounds to me as though this game just isn't for you, given your apparent dislike of any of the game mechanics. Perhaps just try something else?

[S2]

Originally posted by WooD:

Originally posted by DeathStroke:

teams adjust their tactics after time to counter you. if your reputation has grown since the first season then teams that were using positive tactics against you might start using cautious ones , you probably need to make some adjustments of your own. you cant just play the same way every game over and over for years. and if you are conceding late regularly again thats probably on you and your tactics . there is no scripting , theres just a ton of RNG going on in the background that requires a lot of constant balancing .

So tactics make my back4 and BWM play like crap?
How exactly does that work? Defend is defend.
Tactics make pace9 outrun pace16?
Heading 4 beat heading 15 for a goal?
While the 17 finishing AF is missing missing missing?
Not buying it. This game is not that advanced.

I have no doubt in my mind that switching tactic to something else is going to fix it. Cause ive done that and yea..... But its tedious and boring.
Ive already delegated most of the other things like media, contracts for staff etc cause its tedious and boring.
praising is horrible. Doing that every week for 20 players is not my idea of having fun in a game.
Talking to unhappy players is horrible cause it lacks the options you need.

If they modelled the game like you expect (simple numbers check) then it would be super boring as everything would be predictable.

So as the other poster said, you gotta add some randomness (this is called consistency/unconsistency in real life).
Google for example Gaussian distributions. The center of that distribution would be your stats, e.g. heading 15 and 4. Now if the heading 4 gets a lucky roll and the heading 15 gets an unlucky roll they might end up at the spot where both distributions are overlapping and the heading 4 guy may win. In this specific example this could happen in like 2-5% of the cases.
Also consider heading 20 is not 100% while heading 1 is not 0%.
You also have a (small) chance to beat a poker pro, just not in the long run.
Please note as it is a computer game with huge amount of data they cannot code a humanlike AI for every player, thus needing to result to simplification models.

The second big point you are missing is the implementation of mental skills.
You might have a heading 20 guy vs a heading 1 guy. Even if you do not have an unlucky roll the heading 1 guy might still win sometimes if heading 20 guys low concentration makes him '♥♥♥♥ up'. Or he might have a 'nervous in big matches trait', etc.
That being said where i would definetely agree is that SI still has huge room for improvement in that area as i feel they focused on other (read: easier/cheaper/woker) parts of the game.

One remark: I find a few clubs in FM24 borderline unmanagable, given the set expectations with bad players, while not having a decent wage/transfer budget left (just like in real life).


And finally if youre too deep in a very bad run you cant help it sometimes. it snowballs, happened to me as well, Think of Guardiola now.

[JasseBasse]

Originally posted by DeathStroke:

teams adjust their tactics after time to counter you. if your reputation has grown since the first season then teams that were using positive tactics against you might start using cautious ones , you probably need to make some adjustments of your own. you cant just play the same way every game over and over for years. and if you are conceding late regularly again thats probably on you and your tactics . there is no scripting , theres just a ton of RNG going on in the background that requires a lot of constant balancing .

Teams adapt, that is fair enough. However, we are talking sports! Where quality in long term prevails. If you have on overall better team, higher quality, than it wont matter much how mouch other (weaker) teams adapt. It is all BS, propagaded by some arrogance and incompetence at SI.
Or let me ask you this. Me, my mate big Dave, truck driver Tom, slow Ken and bunch of other beer drinking heavies at a local pub, we watch Barcelona. For two years we have watched and analized and addapted. We know ABSOLUTELY ALL there is to know about Barca and have addapted accordingly. By your and SI´s logic we should be able to (easily?) beat Barca in a game of football game. This is what you and SI says.
However, and this might come as a shock to you and SI, things DONT WORK THAT WAY in sports. Frankly, I am sick and tired of this kind of BS excuses and alibies.

[chrissi]

While a 10-game unbeaten streak may have given way to six without a win, no good tactic becomes bad overnight. The reasons for your results changing can be varied and often have nothing to do with the tactic itself. It could be that your team statistically overperformed in your opening games and your winless run is merely a levelling off to where your team should realistically be.

And remember too that in the same way that you can scout the opposition, the opposition are scouting you too - so they may have found an issue in your tactic for them to exploit. While the tactics of the Football Manager AI are partly based on overall reputation, they'd be foolish not to look at your recent form and league position to dictate their approach.

[Damedius]

Originally posted by chrissi:

And remember too that in the same way that you can scout the opposition, the opposition are scouting you too - so they may have found an issue in your tactic for them to exploit. While the tactics of the Football Manager AI are partly based on overall reputation, they'd be foolish not to look at your recent form and league position to dictate their approach.

The AI is incapable of even rotating a squad. There is no way in the world that the AI would be able to study your tactic and counter it.

[chrissi]

Originally posted by Damedius:

Originally posted by chrissi:

And remember too that in the same way that you can scout the opposition, the opposition are scouting you too - so they may have found an issue in your tactic for them to exploit. While the tactics of the Football Manager AI are partly based on overall reputation, they'd be foolish not to look at your recent form and league position to dictate their approach.

The AI is incapable of even rotating a squad. There is no way in the world that the AI would be able to study your tactic and counter it.

Believe it or not, that's how it works in Football Manager.

[Damedius]

Originally posted by chrissi:

Believe it or not, that's how it works in Football Manager.

You expect me to believe an AI that can't properly manage or rotate a squad can study your tactic and counter it?

[DeathStroke]

Originally posted by Damedius:

Originally posted by chrissi:

Believe it or not, that's how it works in Football Manager.

You expect me to believe an AI that can't properly manage rotate or a squad can study your tactic and counter it?

you are over thinking it. if your team is only expected to say finish mid-table , then anyone other than the bottom couple teams is likely going to play an offensive tactic , higher up the pitch with more advanced formation , but if you are expected to finish say in the top 2 then anything from mid-table down is likely to stop using a 4-3-3 style formation , and switch to a back 5 with DMs and Wingbacks ect . If you have been dominating the league for the last couple seasons and are a highly ranked club then teams will respond to the threat accordingly. they arent scouting you and making specific counter tactics . this is why all managers have a couple preferred tactics and styles

[DeathStroke]

Originally posted by JasseBasse:

Originally posted by DeathStroke:

teams adjust their tactics after time to counter you. if your reputation has grown since the first season then teams that were using positive tactics against you might start using cautious ones , you probably need to make some adjustments of your own. you cant just play the same way every game over and over for years. and if you are conceding late regularly again thats probably on you and your tactics . there is no scripting , theres just a ton of RNG going on in the background that requires a lot of constant balancing .

Teams adapt, that is fair enough. However, we are talking sports! Where quality in long term prevails. If you have on overall better team, higher quality, than it wont matter much how mouch other (weaker) teams adapt. It is all BS, propagaded by some arrogance and incompetence at SI.
Or let me ask you this. Me, my mate big Dave, truck driver Tom, slow Ken and bunch of other beer drinking heavies at a local pub, we watch Barcelona. For two years we have watched and analized and addapted. We know ABSOLUTELY ALL there is to know about Barca and have addapted accordingly. By your and SI´s logic we should be able to (easily?) beat Barca in a game of football game. This is what you and SI says.
However, and this might come as a shock to you and SI, things DONT WORK THAT WAY in sports. Frankly, I am sick and tired of this kind of BS excuses and alibies.

you really arent getting this at all are you. . . . no team plays exactly the same every game every season on an on endlessly , players in the squad come and go , the meta in football changes over time . Managers eventually come along with a new idea that is designed to deal with the current favoured style of play. Like how geggenpressing is a relatively recent style of play , or how 4-4-2 used to be popular in the 90s , but now its all 3-4-3 or 4-3-3 . . . Yes if you have a full team of genuine world-class 5 star talent you can generally brute-force your way through a weaker squad even if they have fielded a tactic that is difficult for your team to deal with. but thats still not a 100% guarantee , because . . omg " thats not how things work in sport " . . . .you are acting like the big team always wins no matter what . . .have you ever actually watched any real sport in your life ever???? BS results that shouldnt happen ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ happen constantly , all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time.