Is Gegenpress still brokenly OP?

[JTW]

So in the past couple of FM games, 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 gegenpress has been incredibly OP in my experience. To the point playing it isn't any fun anymore.

My last game was with Blackburn, who i took over halfway through a season where they were 16th in the table. I drew 2 games, lost 1 and won the rest, meaning i won the FA cup and qualified for europe. Next season i won that too and qualified for CL. With Blackburn.
All i did was put on a 4-3-3 Gegenpress, compliment my players whenever they had a good game or a good training session, and buy a few decent players for the money i had.

That ruins the game for me honestly. I can't pick a different tactic when i know i have an option to pick a tactic that's an instant win. It's not fun for me to gimp myself like that, and so i've been hoping that this final FM game would finally change it so other tactics can be valid as well.

Are they? Or is it the same thing again this year.

[pablito15]

Yes.

[steve silent]

Of course its OP.

Its the most used tactic globally by real football teams

It was invented to be that

The Gegenpressing tactic is the most admired football tactic of recent years. The aim of this tactic, which is quite difficult to apply, is to defend by attacking. The slogan of the tactic is that the best defense is the offense.

The aim is to win the ball and score goals by pressing with at least 5-6 players when the soccer ball crosses the field of the opponent. Gegenpressing kick application is a very difficult tactic. Because it requires both skill and skill.

There is no unnecessary rust in this tactic. The striker is considered to be the most important player who also supports the midfield. The most important teams of practitioners of tactics are Borussia Dortmund and Liverpool.

Its just a reflection of real life football

[Garuda One]

If you can’t control yourself or lack the ability to use other systems, then yeah, that sucks. It is a reflection of reality as mentioned before and will likely continue to be an oppressive, favored tactic going forward.

That being said, one of the reasons I like 24 so much is I feel compared to recent versions tactical viability overall is back up. I like to role play a bit when I play. When I make a save I lean into the idea of my manager for that save having a preferred style. This year that is mostly a controlled possession with low tempo play that isn’t overly reliant on pressing. Mostly structured defensive shape and controlling the game pace wise. I’ve had a lot of success with it and it’s been fun. I’ve also used super defensive counter-attack focused tactic with an emphasis on set piece plays this year too and have also done decently well with it. So I feel like there is viability for sure and it’s one of my big upsides to this year for me personally.

[pablito15]

Kinda silly that you have to avoid winning tactics.

I don't agree that potential tactics are more varied than in previous FMs personally. I've been able to set up a few deep counter attacking systems in previous FMs but in this one I haven't been able to.

[pablito15]

Originally posted by steve silent:

Of course its OP.

Its the most used tactic globally by real football teams

It was invented to be that

The Gegenpressing tactic is the most admired football tactic of recent years. The aim of this tactic, which is quite difficult to apply, is to defend by attacking. The slogan of the tactic is that the best defense is the offense.

The aim is to win the ball and score goals by pressing with at least 5-6 players when the soccer ball crosses the field of the opponent. Gegenpressing kick application is a very difficult tactic. Because it requires both skill and skill.

There is no unnecessary rust in this tactic. The striker is considered to be the most important player who also supports the midfield. The most important teams of practitioners of tactics are Borussia Dortmund and Liverpool.

Its just a reflection of real life football

This is dubious IMO.

Madrid have won how many champions leagues in the last decade with an older team. Argentina won the world cup with 10 men off the ball...

The issue with it is that it works well even if the players have inappropriate stats for it.

[I am a girl btw]

Originally posted by pablito15:

Originally posted by steve silent:

Of course its OP.

Its the most used tactic globally by real football teams

It was invented to be that



Its just a reflection of real life football

This is dubious IMO.

Madrid have won how many champions leagues in the last decade with an older team. Argentina won the world cup with 10 men off the ball...

The issue with it is that it works well even if the players have inappropriate stats for it.

That is a very valid point to be honest. And in FM24 you also now have massive underdog teams who are magically able to play Tiki-taka (especially when you play away). There are some formations and instructions which make the opposition almost impossible to press and give away the ball without massive change of tactics and they keep the ball so well at around 85%-90% pass accurancy. It's highly unrealistic and bad design. FM 2022 had the same issues and they didn't really fix it.

[gtjbm]

Originally posted by pablito15:

Kinda silly that you have to avoid winning tactics.

I don't agree that potential tactics are more varied than in previous FMs personally. I've been able to set up a few deep counter attacking systems in previous FMs but in this one I haven't been able to.

That's the biggest problem for me in this year's game. last year's FM23 you could use a variety of tactics and in the right game profile / situations. (And i'm like you, like playing pragmatically which worked fine last years)

This year, you cannot its all high press high line loe, which is why the game's a lot easier and consequently a lot more boring and unsatisfying to play. If you try to play more pragmatic, you get bummed.

It's a real downgrade this year. I was very excited when I heard about incorporating positional play into the game and the new roles, but I was expecting an enhancement from the last patch of FM23 with tactical variety rather than a huge decline with only gegenpress viable.

I recall seeing a user post in the SI forums saying he played gegenpress was winning everything. Tried to use other tactical styles, but they were all significantly worse, and there in the end was no point at all using anything other than gegenpress.

Utterly disappointed with the game this year.

[pablito15]

Originally posted by gtjbm:

Originally posted by pablito15:

Kinda silly that you have to avoid winning tactics.

I don't agree that potential tactics are more varied than in previous FMs personally. I've been able to set up a few deep counter attacking systems in previous FMs but in this one I haven't been able to.

That's the biggest problem for me in this year's game. last year's FM23 you could use a variety of tactics and in the right game profile / situations. (And i'm like you, like playing pragmatically which worked fine last years)

This year, you cannot its all high press high line loe, which is why the game's a lot easier and consequently a lot more boring and unsatisfying to play. If you try to play more pragmatic, you get bummed.

It's a real downgrade this year. I was very excited when I heard about incorporating positional play into the game and the new roles, but I was expecting an enhancement from the last patch of FM23 with tactical variety rather than a huge decline with only gegenpress viable.

I recall seeing a user post in the SI forums saying he played gegenpress was winning everything. Tried to use other tactical styles, but they were all significantly worse, and there in the end was no point at all using anything other than gegenpress.

Utterly disappointed with the game this year.

Yeah similar feeling for me.

[Cephei]

It's true, gegenpress is very overpowered. all other tactics with lower line of defence, low trigger press, cautious approach etc is a lot weaker compared with Gegenpress.

I tried to build a tactic with lots of defensive security but it's really hard in the Premier league to have succes without gegenpress.

If I get frustrated I just go back to gegenpress and win everything, but it's no fun.

[JTW]

Thanks everyone for the answers. Sounds like it's as i feared and Gegenpress is still too OP.

[pablito15]

Originally posted by Cephei:

It's true, gegenpress is very overpowered. all other tactics with lower line of defence, low trigger press, cautious approach etc is a lot weaker compared with Gegenpress.

I tried to build a tactic with lots of defensive security but it's really hard in the Premier league to have succes without gegenpress.

If I get frustrated I just go back to gegenpress and win everything, but it's no fun.

Defending is still buggy even after the patch. The way to win is by being in your own half less.

[Don Cool]

Gegenpress is in itself not OP, try it without high tempo and watch the results.

It´s high tempo football that is broken in FM, even minnows from the amateur leagues can cope with it.

Pablito is right though, defending sucks for the most part and keepers in general only seem to do well for the team under pressure. You do not want to be under pressure if you can avoid it and you don´t want your defenders to deal with much, that means press, high tempo and attack either with mentality or specific player instructions.

There are other things you can exploit which are never mentioned but I like winning, so I will keep those secrets to myself. Don´t want SI to fix that.

[pablito15]

Originally posted by Don:

Gegenpress is in itself not OP, try it without high tempo and watch the results.

It´s high tempo football that is broken in FM, even minnows from the amateur leagues can cope with it.

Pablito is right though, defending sucks for the most part and keepers in general only seem to do well for the team under pressure. You do not want to be under pressure if you can avoid it and you don´t want your defenders to deal with much, that means press, high tempo and attack either with mentality or specific player instructions.

There are other things you can exploit which are never mentioned but I like winning, so I will keep those secrets to myself. Don´t want SI to fix that.

Correct! Well said.

[steve silent]

Originally posted by Don:

Gegenpress is in itself not OP, try it without high tempo and watch the results.

It´s high tempo football that is broken in FM, even minnows from the amateur leagues can cope with it.

Pablito is right though, defending sucks for the most part and keepers in general only seem to do well for the team under pressure. You do not want to be under pressure if you can avoid it and you don´t want your defenders to deal with much, that means press, high tempo and attack either with mentality or specific player instructions.

There are other things you can exploit which are never mentioned but I like winning, so I will keep those secrets to myself. Don´t want SI to fix that.

Totally agree

and adding to that

Geggenpress is meant to be played with a Very attacking mentality, which will tire players out quickly

But if played at a balanced mentality it changes dramatically, especially in the fitness side, you will tend to see players not tire as quick.

and again if played with very defensive. it returns back to a high fatigue game.

[Don Cool]

Originally posted by steve silent:

But if played at a balanced mentality it changes dramatically, especially in the fitness side, you will tend to see players not tire as quick.

and again if played with very defensive. it returns back to a high fatigue game.

Gegenpress is used by many teams as a weapon when the opponent tries to play out of defense and then they retreat if unsuccessful to "hold shape". You can´t really do that in FM since you can´t really change tactics depending on each and every single opponent attempt to play from the back. This is actually the sort of a "balanced gegenpress".

Full out gegenpress is used by very few teams and you need really good players to pull it off, but even M. City when using it slow down the pace at times to allow for a breather. You can´t run "high tempo" for 90 minutes .. unless you play FM :).