I miss the old good sprites

[FlintX]

Yes, I understand that drawing actual sprites are more demading than messing up with a template 3D skeleton for building poses in a dev standpoint. But really, this 3D chibi style just makes everything looks like generic cheap mobile games.

Couldn't they have done something more like Dragon Ball Fighter Z or Guilty Gear Strive 3D anime models instead?

[Duskyer]

Comparing a fighting game where you only see around 2 characters as opposed to a TRPG where you have a view of 10+ characters. The characters in fighting games take up 30% of the screen whilst in this game the characters take up maybe 5%

[The Phoenix]

Well, that depends on what kind of engine they made this game, seem like an inhouse one that is not Unreal nor Unity. If it's a brand new one from ground up, then it's understandable with the low quality (well I think just the bone structures for model rigging is quite simple and not as expressive as the sprites did) because they need to make their own resources.

I think the animation is fine, it's the speed that show all the downsides, which is fixable when you run x2 speed (at least this is the temporary solution for me).

[Duskyer]

Originally posted by The Phoenix:

Well, that depends on what kind of engine they made this game, seem like an inhouse one that is not Unreal nor Unity. If it's a brand new one from ground up, then it's understandable with the low quality (well I think just the bone structures for model rigging is quite simple and not as expressive as the sprites did) because they need to make their own resources.

I think the animation is fine, it's the speed that show all the downsides, which is fixable when you run x2 speed (at least this is the temporary solution for me).

Yeah I have no problem with the 3D models, but I agree the animation could use some work. Some squash and stretch could be done to give it more fluid movement. Adel's Vulcan Blaze is a good example of stiff animation. Playing around with the camera angles would work wonders as well.

[FlintX]

Originally posted by Duskyer:

Comparing a fighting game where you only see around 2 characters as opposed to a TRPG where you have a view of 10+ characters. The characters in fighting games take up 30% of the screen whilst in this game the characters take up maybe 5%

You complete missed the point. And what you've said doesn't make sense in this context too. When doing 2D sprites they mostly likely draw all poses as one side only for front and back perpective, and then mirror all sprite sheets to the other direction, and maybe change details like hair or scar on the eye, etc, to match the correct direction (rarely). Also, 3D camera rotation in this game only works to 4 directions at a isometric perspective, which means they add the original drawing to two sides of the camera and the mirrored sprites to the other remaining 2 directions and that's it. There is no full 3D rotation of 8 different directions with sprite sheets attached to each one of them going on here. Sprites only have two sides, front and back.

With fully 3D models they don't have such limitations though and it take less work overall. As they don't have to draw several frames of 2D animation for each class/enemy unit in the 4/2 different angles. Simple because they create the characters full 3D models, animate it and that's it. There's no extra work of making animations for every different angle because this is done automatically. You create the animation once and simple rotate the camera around the model.

Anyways, my point was about the art direction and the drawing style. Size of the 3D model doesn't matter at all because they can resize it to fit whatever square dimension the field panels are. They aren't automatically locked to chibi style, that's what I'm saying. It is merely a design choice because it is fitting for Disgaea comical atmosphere or something.
But it is perfectly possible to make more detailed/mature 3D anime models like Fighter Z or Guilty Gear Strive 3D models and fit them into the game battle maps too. And I'm pretty sure they could find a way to deliver the Disgaea vibe doing so if they wanted too.

[Duskyer]

I never mentioned the directions the models would be facing considering that part isn't important. What I mentioned was the space that the characters on screen take. There's no point in making detailed models if we're going to be seeing them from a distance for a majority of the game. In fighting games, the animations make up the entirety of the game which is why they focus on making them look good. In a TRPG it's fine as long you can tell the characters apart from each other.

[The Phoenix]

Originally posted by Duskyer:

I never mentioned the directions the models would be facing considering that part isn't important. What I mentioned was the space that the characters on screen take. There's no point in making detailed models if we're going to be seeing them from a distance for a majority of the game. In fighting games, the animations make up the entirety of the game which is why they focus on making them look good. In a TRPG it's fine as long you can tell the characters apart from each other.

Yeah, I understand your point as the amount of models they need to focus in DBFZ is not that many so they made it more details. But NIS wanted to make closeup character expressions, so demand a better detailed 3d models that fit closeup animations is understandable.

I think there are technical issues that they decided to make closeup animations like right now, most likely because of clipping, so they made a separated one from the map. I also think it'd make the animations more confusing when we see it far away (example is Valvatorez's model when you look at him from behind, if you have the DLC). My point is perspective also a major factor for their decision.

All in all, they NEED to improve both the models and the animations as well (Also please make weapon animations and hair animations on top of that.)

[planescaped]

The artstyle in the older games is timeless.

The new games really do look like a cheap mobile game... I am sure they could make it look better, but they don't seem to want to put the effort in to do so, or more likely, have the dev time. Maybe by the time Disgaea 9 is coming out they'll have the experience needed, lol.

[pprandom]

The idea that 'creating sprites is too much work' for a professional game company is borderline r*tarded. Oh, how could they ever create sprites for so many characters!!? You mean how the have done since Disgaea 1, decades ago? Why would it be harder to draw sprites today, if they are pretty you don't even need that fluid animation, most Disgaea games have 2-4 frames of animation for actions for god's sake.

[Sus]

Same. Bring back the old style....please

[dachte]

I think most Disgaea fans prefer the older sprites, but if I remember correctly NIS has said that the amount of effort that went into producing them (with all their variants for motion and stuff) was getting cost-prohibitive, while the 3d chibi things can easily be reused between several different animations.

I'd still like to see the old sprites come back, but I can see the reasons for the shift.

[FlintX]

Originally posted by dachte:

I think most Disgaea fans prefer the older sprites, but if I remember correctly NIS has said that the amount of effort that went into producing them (with all their variants for motion and stuff) was getting cost-prohibitive, while the 3d chibi things can easily be reused between several different animations.

I'd still like to see the old sprites come back, but I can see the reasons for the shift.

Well, maybe in some near future someone will develop an A.I campable of flawless create different poses for sprite arts using a base draw as reference, and then generate the different animation frames it is asked for, or by scanning 3D models/templates animations and redraw them translated as 2D animations frames.

Thing is... a lot of artists and animators would lose their jobs by then.

[Shakuras]

that new art direction is why i stopped at 5 who was the peak.
What i saw of 6 animation/dynamic was so disapointing compared to the vibrant & epic stuff from 5 that I just can't bring myself to support such downgrade.

[Toddasaurus Rex]

Well, just makes it easier to port and touch up monsters, models, and moves in each subsequent title. So hypothetically with each iteration of 3d disgaea we should be getting more and more content with each game now, yeah?