Why was this game so well recieved?

[latchk3y]

The layout is basic, there's nothing in this world that could be considered interesting, the music is bland and mediocre at best, and all you have to do is use the basic core mechanic over and over to solve the same puzzles.

This feels like a prolonged demo moreso than it does a finished product.

[Cocyx The Gay Skeleton]

the first 5 minutes of this should answer your questions assuming you don't have an ulterior motive here

[latchk3y]

Originally posted by shuffleʀᴜsʜ͇͇͇͇:

the first 5 minutes of this should answer your questions assuming you don't have an ulterior motive here

I would be able to accept this, if it weren't for the fact that the game isn't fun.
No matter how deep your lore is, and no matter how "cryptic" and "mysterious" the main story, if your game can't delve into gameplay past bare mechanics, it isn't a good game.
While I'll admit that I now realize how much more of a story there is, and how you can go about achieving it, there's still little to nothing inhabiting the world, and the story and personalities of both Gomez and the few villagers are inconsequential.
At least now I guess I see why others like it so much.
But if I wanted a game specifically for story, I'd read a book.

[Cocyx The Gay Skeleton]

well the story is actually very tight and well woven -- the world is empty because of the black holes the big-headed villagers accidentally made when they were tampering with the 4th dimension (aka that big cube teleport & other teleports). out of fear, they locked themselves in the starting village and proceeded to unlearn dimensions over generations and became stupider (flat headed), hence why the village called cubes "devil squares" and have terrible grammar. there's a LOT more to this, but you need to play the game to find out!

the reason why it's a game rather than a story is because it's trying to teach you how dimensions interact with eachother and applying those concepts to higher dimensions. it's essentially a video game version of Flatland, with creepy undertones. it's one of the best games ever made IMO. the only critique is that maybe it starts a bit slow, but the intention was that the game seems like an innocent platformer with a huge rabbit hole you fall into that goes deeper and deeper until you realize everything has a double meaning -- it's designed deliberately to catch you off guard.

whether this is "fun" or not is a very primitive argument and is an incredibly limiting threshold to plaster onto this medium. just because there is no instant gratification factor doesn't make it a bad game. not every game needs to be a roller coaster. there is more to life than just stimulating your brain with skinnerbox entertainment until you die, although that is apparently an unpopular opinion these days...

[Cocyx The Gay Skeleton]

Originally posted by Tris:

No, its unfortunately NOT an unpopular opinion that games don't need to be fun.

I don't care about instant gratification.

I care about games that challenge you and make the most out of their core mechanics, as games did back in the days where it was about making fun over making "muh immersion".
Its not primitive to want a medium built around interaction to be fun.

skill based games are rare these days, but i enjoy them too. however, i don't think skill based games are very fun. "fun" is a very broad term for a sort of stimulus reaction. would you consider an incredibly punishing game like CSGO to be fun? usually if one wants to capitalize on "fun", it has to make sacrifices to even the skill gap, because getting murdered repeatedly by higher skilled players does not translate into "fun" for most people. however, it can be gratifying to overcome obstacles in skill based games.

if your definition of fun actually means gratification, then the gratification of discovering the depths of fez would be classified as "fun" to a lot of people, including myself, making it a very fun game.

Originally posted by Tris:

May I ask how old you are?

nope -- why would that matter?

[Cocyx The Gay Skeleton]

Originally posted by Tris:

I just pin you as the type to have no grown up in the age where video games were memorable and not this garbage that's either the same formula over and over again or pretencious indie crap.

Lurk more, get informed.

And stop watching Extra Credits.

hmmm, lurk where? is your only familiarity of social interaction based on image boards? i don't know what extra credits is. you seem to be very confident in broad assumptions as a coping mechanism to dismiss what i have to say

[Asmer]

Originally posted by Tris:

This is pretty much a larger, more mechanical version of "The Graveyard".
What makes it worse is that there are legitimately people who will not only defend games like this, but will then go on to say that "fun" is somehow a limiting factor in an INTERACTIVE MEDIUM.
But at this point I'm just rambling.

I mean, you've played an hour of the game. You know nothing Jon Snow. ;)

Playing this at launch, excitedly scribbling down inane symbols, hunting owls, and trying to decipher the cryptic puzzles in this game all night is kind of a seminal gaming moment for me. Not to mention a tremendous amount of fun.

Just because *you* don't find the first hour of a game enthralling, doesn't mean that those of us who had fun with the next 20+ are wrong or "defending that games don't need to be fun".

You might just not enjoy this game, that's fine. Play something else. :) People have different tastes. For example, I found "Papers Please" beyond tedious, and can't understand how people enjoy playing it, but you logged a good eight hours.

[Cocyx The Gay Skeleton]

it's almost like there's an ulterior motive at work here to motivate the OP to dismiss any semblance of actual discussion. wonder what that could be. if there was only something controversial about this fez game...

[Asmer]

Originally posted by shuffleʀᴜsʜ͇͇͇͇:

hmmm, lurk where? is your only familiarity of social interaction based on image boards? i don't know what extra credits is. you seem to be very confident in broad assumptions as a coping mechanism to dismiss what i have to say

It's cute that they're questioning your bonafides, when you could subtract my years on steam from yours and still have been here longer than them

[Kino]

Because it made a point of it's 'different' and 'innovative' perspective amongst mainstream games at the time, and the mechanics are new and unique. It was received well because it filled one of the wants of modern gaming culture, which is basically new, unique game mechanics. And that is what draws people in. If you're wondering how come it's praised so much, I believe it's because of the amount of emotional depth the game has--a miracle, considering when it was made. EVERYBODY says "oh, how come it's so blocky,' 'how come it's plain,' 'why is it so empty,' what they don't get though is that the game doesn't pander to any evil tendencies. It's a clean, fun experience, and most importantly--its a puzzle game. Meant to be solved kinda like a riddle. The entire game is like a universal riddle that you have to bring all the pieces together to understand entirely. It's a very, very unique experience. The way you look at the world is boring at the moment b/c nothing makes sense, but the people who actually complete all of it, understand....everything! Literally, nothing is left without being tied to cubes, or secrets, or whatever. And with that, you now know why people like it so much. It's a game that appeals to the patient, to the intelligent, and, (I believe), the compassionate people of the world. Just some advice though -- the first half is sorta boring because all you do is explore. The SECOND half is the part that takes real ingenuity to solve. to get the most out of the game, your probably gonna have to pay way more attention than you are right now. The hard puzzles depend on your intuition more than anything else, so the more you pay attention to the game world the easier it will be to understand the puzzles.


TL;DR -- It's just hard to explain if you haven't gone the whole way and beaten the entire game. There's a lot to everything, most people just don't notice the details when they first play the game.

[Cocyx The Gay Skeleton]

Originally posted by Tris:

Every design aspect of this game was ripped from much better flash games. Try again.

youre feigning ignorance very poorly and obnoxiously. i'm not sure who you're trying to fool with this (most likely yourself), considering you explicitly now know its a myst style puzzle game. i know you don't actually think this. perhaps you're trying to backpedal and say you were trolling the entire time?

Originally posted by Tris:

I've explained what my definition of fun is, actually, and what makes a game fun. Perhaps if you re-read through some of my posts, you'd be able to grasp what my concept of it is, and not have to rely on baseless assumptions.

you've described a skill based game, and then i explained how a skill based game is actually just gratification, and then you uh completely ignored that whole post and told me to lurk more. cool, great job. sure wonder why i think you come from /v/

Originally posted by Tris:

I am here to debate about game design, otherwise I would've left.
If you wanna say my opinion is hot ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, say my opinion's hot ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Doesn't prevent me from pointing out that, like you said, "you're wrong and dumb, and that's my opinion."

and it doesn't prevent me from saying your opinions are formed on /v/ mob mentality because you're not smart enough to form your own

Originally posted by Tris:

on an unrelated note, that whole bit at the end has shown me that you're truly EDGY, man. be careful, you might cut someone!

wow i must be some sort of edgemaster!!! 2 edgy 6 me ha ha -- don't worry if you don't get it, it's an internet thing. spoiler tag punchline!!!!!!!!

[latchk3y]

While I was hoping for something in terms of why it was well recieved, and then maybe something that would then segway into how the game could be better, what it did right, etc etc etc, it seems you're more concerned with defending this game again me, "teh troll from /v/".

I'll admit it was immediately presumtious of me to assume that you were yet another drone from the EC audience, and perhaps I was out of line for asking your age. In any case, I'll accept the fact that its my fault that the discussion became what it became, as it seems I've struck a nerve.

No, I don't dislike this game because of Phil Fish. I dislike this game for lack of challenge or merit, and its need to try and be "artsy" over "fun." Skill-based games are the only ones you can truly define as games, the way I see it. The game's controls are solid, and the core mechanics work, but if I can solve the puzzle with nothing but jumping and turning and never have the possibility of failure, how is it much of a game at all?

However, I suppose this discussion is over. I've lost the ability to have a decent conversation, since your immediate assumption about me is that I dislike this game because of what I've heard from other people, and not because I genuinely feel on my own voalition that this is a bad game.

Say what you will, though.

[Cocyx The Gay Skeleton]

Originally posted by Tris:

While I was hoping for something in terms of why it was well recieved, and then maybe something that would then segway into how the game could be better, what it did right, etc etc etc, it seems you're more concerned with defending this game again me, "teh troll from /v/".

well no, i'm saying you're not here to argue about game design, you're here for some ulterior predetermined motive to campaign against games that aren't "fun". i'm not defending the game, i'm calling you out on ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ which becomes increasingly clear as you hamfistedly recite /v/ logic like hurr it's a flash game!!! or whatever

Originally posted by Tris:

I dislike this game for lack of challenge or merit, and its need to try and be "artsy" over "fun." Skill-based games are the only ones you can truly define as games, the way I see it. The game's controls are solid, and the core mechanics work, but if I can solve the puzzle with nothing but jumping and turning and never have the possibility of failure, how is it much of a game at all?

because if you paid attention to the very first thing i linked in the thread, you would've known the platforming is just a means to get around the world to solve harder puzzles.

Originally posted by Tris:

However, I suppose this discussion is over. I've lost the ability to have a decent conversation, since your immediate assumption about me is that I dislike this game because of what I've heard from other people, and not because I genuinely feel on my own voalition that this is a bad game.

i'm sure you gave it a fair shake but you applied the aforementioned "fun" threshold that the game did not meet to qualify a good game. i'm saying that this threshold is idiotic because you still haven't explained what "fun" is other than describing gratification over and over like it means something else. i'll ask one last time: what makes skill based games fun? what do you feel when you overcome a challenge in a skill based game?

[latchk3y]

Well, to put it basically, a skill-based game is fun because it allows you to use your mind and coordiandination to solve problems.

You -could- make the argument that this game does this; however, without any possibility of failure, you can't say this is a game based on skill. I'm not learning anything or honing some new skill by mindlessly jumping on platforms, and maybe perhaps twisting a platform, or throwing a bomb. There's no sense of urgency, so I tire of this formula quickly.

Another thing that could make a game fun, under the assumption that failure isn't a possibility (even though it always should be in some fashion) is something that drives you to push forward. Some over-arching plot thread that motivates you to pursue forward, or maybe just the desire to know more about the world.

This game doesn't deliever on either of those, either; the world here feels remarkably empty, and I don't honestly care much about any of the story. Basing it on the old "it gets better later" is farcical; if there's no pull in the first hour of the game, why would I wait to find out if there's one later? Perhaps there was one for you, but for me, the entire set-up of the game seemed too pretenscious, and I honestly didn't feel compelled to go forward. That said, I fully intend to complete the game in due time.

---
To address your other issues, I don't think this game is fun, and so I asked why it is. I'm not reciting anything from /v/, because I don't need to. This is all based off my expiriences with the game.

Furthermore, I didn't say that this WAS a flashgame, I said that there were flashgames that did it BETTER; this mechanic isn't unique in any sense of the word, and has been used several times before FEZ ever existed.
---

[Cocyx The Gay Skeleton]

Originally posted by Tris:

Well, to put it basically, a skill-based game is fun because it allows you to use your mind and coordiandination to solve problems.

you're again describing gratification and replacing it with the word "fun". check this out:

a skill-based game is gratifying because it allows you to use your mind and coordiandination to solve problems

Originally posted by Tris:

Basing it on the old "it gets better later" is farcical; if there's no pull in the first hour of the game, why would I wait to find out if there's one later?

because the entire games point is that it operates on multiple layers that you discover later. you're just describing boilerplate game design and critiquing the game for not following suit. just because it breaks patterns set in video games doesn't mean its a bad video game, it means you're rather shallow.

Originally posted by Tris:

To address your other issues, I don't think this game is fun, and so I asked why it is. I'm not reciting anything from /v/, because I don't need to. This is all based off my expiriences with the game.

maybe you should experience a game longer than 1 hour before you form strong opinions on it. crazy concept i know!!!!!!!!!

[latchk3y]

Kay.