What did Phil Fish do that was so wrong?

[neon/drifter]

I notice so much hate for the guy, and yet I find myself agreeing with more than half of his opinions.

I don't know if that makes me a bad guy, but basically, what has he done that was so wrong other than saying "Japanese games suck?"

Sure he could have phrased it differently. But this is the only bad thing I can place on him.

Seriously, what did he do? He made a terrific game, got a lot of hate for some of his crass comments, (there are worse "professionals" in the industry than phil.) and yet, I can't see why no one can forgive him.

[Cocyx The Gay Skeleton]

he didn't do anything wrong, it was a snowball effect, a mob mentality amongst gamers that all decided that he was the biggest ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmTUW-owa2w

here's a good watch about the issue.

[Quinterfell]

Nothing, people just need to get over themselves.

[neon/drifter]

That's what I thought. Just didn't know if I was missing something. Ahh, the internet. stupidity in droves!

[Dukie]

I don't hate him or realy care, but I do find it all quite hilarious. Things like "PCs are for spreadsheets" makes me giggle. Not because I agree, but because in one blow he alienates a whole market. Well done.

Just before FEZ was released on Steam:

it's #1 on steam right now and it's not even out yet.
you should boycott harder, nerds.

we're going to need some kind of spreadsheet calculator to keep track of all these sales!

So he basicly created a troll topic on his own Steam Community that later get's closed by Steam moderators. Comedy gold.

I can't get mad at Phil because I do not care for his games. It's not my cup of tea, but I find the whole situation very amusing. Activly seeking controversie and later on rage quits because of it, and the threats I'm sure he got (from crazy people).

I do somewhat feel bad for him though, and I hoped he learned his lesson, but then he recently stated he wants money from Youtubers.... sigh... Round 2?

[Cocyx The Gay Skeleton]

Originally posted by Duke McFishy:

. Things like "PCs are for spreadsheets" makes me giggle. Not because I agree, but because in one blow he alienates a whole market.

Just before FEZ was released on Steam:

it's #1 on steam right now and it's not even out yet.
you should boycott harder, nerds.

we're going to need some kind of spreadsheet calculator to keep track of all these sales!

he made jokes and fired shots back at people who were obsessively insulting him and attempting to boycott him, yeah. does that mean he's an evil person? nope! does it mean he's an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥? that's subjective! does it mean he's not afraid to express himself without a filter? sure does, and depending on your stance you will find that either respectable or stupid. personally i find it respectable.

[Dukie]

No ofcourse I agree that he isn't an evil person. That why I only take notice of that stuff and have a good laugh about it and shrug my shoulders. However if I was a game creator I would approach my potential buyers differently.

O well that's the choice he made, and he payed for it. You know that some people take gaming way too seriously.

[Cocyx The Gay Skeleton]

Originally posted by Duke McFishy:

However if I was a game creator I would approach my potential buyers differently.

ah, classic, "if i did it i would totally handle it better". fish obviously isn't interested in being a politically correct drone whose only social purpose is to sell more of his product. he is interested about creating art unlike most other game creators, and because art is a indirect introspective representation of ones personality, he's also very expressive of this aforementioned personality. i don't think it's fishes fault at all really, i just think gamers are still very immature and one dimensional about what a famous game dev personality should be, and anything that breaks that mold should be punished with...harassment and death threats. yup

[Dukie]

That's fair enough him being not politically correct, but you agree that from a business point of view it wasn't the smartest thing to do? He kinda commited career suicide (no pun intended).

[Cocyx The Gay Skeleton]

Originally posted by Duke McFishy:

but you agree that from a business point of view it wasn't the smartest thing to do? He kinda commited career suicide (no pun intended).

i'm sure he was very aware that people might disagree with his opinions, but he isn't the only dev who acts like this. a lot of indie devs are very expressive and non-business oriented, they care more about expressing themselves than selling a bajillion copies of their game. the fish thing was a combination of his personality type and mob mentality; it snowballed because fish slowly became a misguided symbol for arrogance, and you would get cool points for harassing him.

[Dukie]

Originally posted by Cocyx The Gay Skeleton:

a lot of indie devs are very expressive and non-business oriented, they care more about expressing themselves than selling a bajillion copies of their game

Well then he needs to shut up about getting money from Youtubers. It is contradicting that statement.

[Cocyx The Gay Skeleton]

Originally posted by Duke McFishy:

Well then he needs to shut up about getting money from Youtubers. It is contradicting that statement.

it was an offhand opinion he made on twitter about the state of how lets players were getting paid, if he actually cared that much, he would just file take-downs for every youtube video playing fez. i think the problem is that people percieved it as "oh phil just wants more money obviously cause he's clearly a jerk" instead of the moral principles of which he was actually tackling, one that i'm actually aligned with. i think lets players piggyback too much on games and the fact that they think word of mouth is monetizable is pretty greedy in of itself.

[Dukie]

Yeah this is kind of a different debate but I think you underestimate the fact that many people watch those videos because of the personality of the let's player. I honestly believe the games are secondary, although I agree it is in some cases somewhat of a factor.

People stick around a certain Youtubers channel and can because of it stumble upon a certain game they otherwise never heard of, or never thought about buying. I think that in itself is enough value for the developer, and can result in a spike in sales.

I honestly don't agree with Fish on this one.

[neon/drifter]

Originally posted by Cocyx The Gay Skeleton:

Originally posted by Duke McFishy:

Well then he needs to shut up about getting money from Youtubers. It is contradicting that statement.

it was an offhand opinion he made on twitter about the state of how lets players were getting paid, if he actually cared that much, he would just file take-downs for every youtube video playing fez. i think the problem is that people percieved it as "oh phil just wants more money obviously cause he's clearly a jerk" instead of the moral principles of which he was actually tackling, one that i'm actually aligned with. i think lets players piggyback too much on games and the fact that they think word of mouth is monetizable is pretty greedy in of itself.

Yes. This is probably one of his opinions I agreed with most. Let's Players are, in my opinion, ruining gaming.

[neon/drifter]

Originally posted by Duke McFishy:

Yeah this kind of a different debate but I think you underestimate the fact that many people watch those videos because of the personality of the let's player. I honestly believe the games are secondary, although I agree it is in some cases somewhat of a factor.

People stick around a certain Youtubers channel and can because of it stumble upon a certain game they otherwise never heard of, or never thought about buying. I think that in itself is enough value for the developer, and can result in a spike in sales.

I honestly don't agree with Fish on this one.

I've heard this theory before, but I know TOO many people who have said, "I wanted to buy the game, but then I watched it on Youtube, so I didn't need to buy it anymore."

It really saddens me. :( What's the point in playing through a game if you watched the whole thing?

And even worse, it removes the challenge, I was playing Limbo with someone, and they breezed through several puzzles saying "yeah I saw this in a lets play video" and I thought to myself, "man, that really removes the fun out of thinking for yourself."

[Dukie]

Originally posted by retrowire:

Yes. This is probably one of his opinions I agreed with most. Let's Players are, in my opinion, ruining gaming.

I'm not a fan of let's plays, I'd rather play them myself but I don't think it is ruining anything.