How Many Gnomes Can You Have Before LAG?

[Astrolibrarian™]

Just curious, how many gnomes can you guys have running around at once before it starts lagging significantly?
It'd be helpful if you mention your world size & what kind of compooter you have

I'm on a pretty new i7 laptop, haven't played in a few months since the game lagged out for me early on (possibly due to beetle spawns, I've never had many gnomes) but am wondering if maybe there's been any improvement.

[KK419]

on the ancient overheating laptop i'm currently using, i've got a population of 26 and it runs ok on a tiny map - like around 20 fps, which is certainly playable.

the only times i've noticed significant lag are when using the scout/open your eyes perks with gnomes with torches, or if there is a break in pathfinding.

i should mention i've not been doing any mining on this map beyond digging out my fortress a couple of floors down. not sure how much of an effect that may have....previous fortress i'd done a lot of digging and the fps was taking a big hit - although that may of been the aforementioned gnome perks/torches they were carrying.

laptop has a 2ghz dual core cpu, 4 gigs of ram and an archaic intel 965 gpu, - oh and atrocious heat management.

[XYX]

After mining level 50 I got a bit of lag. I restarted and it was fine for a few hours until the lagging started again. Pathfinding may very well be the issue as there is no consistant pattern.

[Astrolibrarian™]

ooh, i thought lag might come from mining too much area open, but i've never been lower than maybe -10 !!
I just think this game would be more awesome if you could have at least 2-300 gnomes on a modern computer...1-2000 would be better so you could make a real town :/

[SilverRose]

the reason for the lag at lower levels might be due to the caverns that are unmasked, and BEETLES o god the beetles they cuase major lag.

The max pop I ever got was 43 and 12 deaths (due in most part to stupid gnomes),the fps was stable around 20ish when on floors 0-(-7) but further down I ran into the cavern thing and the fps droped like a stone.

[Articulate Llama]

Actually the main cause of lag is the lack of multiple cpu support in the game engine, yes beetles and having many unstocked items casues it now, but if it was using all your cores it would probably not lag at all.

[Astrolibrarian™]

Yup yup, beetles made me quit playing a couple times for months...But at least They can be turned off.

So, I'm sure it's been asked already, but is there no chance the game will ever be optimised to use multiple cores??
I like these retro-graphics games, but don't understand why they lag so much...minecraft, don't starve, & others do it too...

[chaotix14]

Originally posted by Hackey McNoobster™:

I like these retro-graphics games, but don't understand why they lag so much...minecraft, don't starve, & others do it too...

Because unlike a game like CoD, in games like Gnomoria they don't just simulate what is in the vision of the player, where the enemies are and in what direction they are shooting. They have to simulate and track every single block(or at the very least all that are uncovered) and item on the floor, track the growth time of the plants. And also simulate and track all creatures, each of their health and needs statusses, which jobs they can do and what priority they should have and then run complex pathfinding on them all at the same time. IE you are asking your PC to do something scientists build entire supercomputers for to calculate, now okay their calculations generally are a bit more complex, but it's essentially the same.

[kevinshow]

I think some of the lag may also be memory leaks. Several times now, my game slowed down, even to where the gnomes are skipping several blocks as they move around. But restarting the game (not just reloading), will make the game move smoothly again.

Try that and see if it helps. There are other reasons and solutions mentioned, though, so try them all as needed.

[Astrolibrarian™]

chaotix, I guess I see what you mean, but if these retro beancounter games are so complicated, why aren't they made to use a computer's full ability? Or is it just that you need a gaming computer to play this type of game very long..? I know laptops aren't good for games, but still...

navorskatie, what you describe is exactly what i do w/Don't Starve or Minecraft...If it bogs down, restart...So that's what I'll do if i get back into Gnomoria (plus turn off Beatles!)

[chaotix14]

Originally posted by Hackey McNoobster™:

chaotix, I guess I see what you mean, but if these retro beancounter games are so complicated, why aren't they made to use a computer's full ability? Or is it just that you need a gaming computer to play this type of game very long..? I know laptops aren't good for games, but still...

navorskatie, what you describe is exactly what i do w/Don't Starve or Minecraft...If it bogs down, restart...So that's what I'll do if i get back into Gnomoria (plus turn off Beatles!)

Well for one, you kinda would want a gaming computer for them, if only so you can have more gnomes and enemies before your computer starts complaining with massive lag and whirring fans. Secondly, multithreading and the other stuff that allows you to utilize all the cores of a computer to it's full extend is hard to code. Which means it'll take a lot of time from the developper to code, not something you'd want to spend your resources on when you and the playerbase generally has more interest in seeing the last few features becoming fleshed out and making the game featurecomplete.

I know it sucks when a great game becomes unplayable because your fort outgrew the resources your computer has to offer you, I've been there a few times myself(As I'm using a 3-year old budget gaming laptop). But these sort of games are almost impossible to design so that it can be run on a toaster with a huge map and a large army of minions.

[Astrolibrarian™]

Well I can understand if these games are intended to be run on gaming-oriented systems, but I think maybe they should be more clear on that...Or do you think the recommended specs are usually accurate?
What are the upper limits of Gnomoria on a modern gaming system?
Can it keep up with its own parameters? (population, depth, # of tiles, etc)

Anyway, I can see how it'd be impractical for a lone developer to try & code multithreads or whatever stuff I know little about...But can't a successful game simply outsource that work to Chindia, quickly & cheaply? ..Am I missing something here?
I do see that most players are more interested in Hats & roleplaying silliness, but personally I'm more into experimenting w/extremes, like how many buildings or gnomes can I have, how many bookshelves can I fit, etc...LOL

[Skev]

Running a new highish-end gaming rig I started getting issues with about 55 gnomes, and I've done a fair bit of mining all the way down to about -75

[Los.Injurus.Bob.Blunderton]

With this game, GHZ is KING... and this game is definately intel cpu territory.
THIS GAME IS SINGLE CORE CURRENTLY (Multicore/SMP is planned).

AMD ATHLON II 2.8ghz = small/medium maps with 40-30 gnomes, lag starts with mining down past floor -30. Don't build TALL buildings on the surface level above 5 floors. Going over gnome amount may require you to pause while building. Keep beetles and mants OFF.
Don't use furthest out zoom all the time.
*See deep mining note below...
AMD PHENOM II 3.0ghz = Same as above, + 5% fps.... FAST CLOCKED Phenom II's may actually be BETTER than the below cpu (the FX) if you have them above 4ghz.
KEEP BEETLES AND MANTS OFF
AMD FX 6300 CPU @ 4.2ghz = small/medium maps with 50-35 gnomes, lag starts with mining down past floor 35-45. Don't build TALL buildings on the surface level above 5 floors. KEEP BEETLES OFF
*See deep mining note blow...
AMD FX CPU's have only HALF the Floating-Point units that the comparable ATHLON II/ PHENOM / PHENOM II / OPTERON cpu's do. GNOMORIA is single-core and NEEDS that fpu!

Intel Core i7 4790k/ Intel Core i5 4690k 4.0ghz = BEST cpu's to run this game with! Large maps with 60+ gnomes, Great hall 116x158x6f high located @ -44 in the mine. Every gnome in the military. Only lag is when enemy is spotted (from having 50-60 gnomes enlisted in the military). Humongous maps are fine on peaceful, but that's pushing it if you want a MONSTER kingdom. If you're going for 40-45 gnomes, you should be fine. It'll run fine if you manage it well. Use of mants is fine, beetles are okay if you find them in time.
Do not have to build while paused - ever. Medium and small maps run like a dream (100fps!).
This (either) cpu is MORE THAN TWICE the speed of the AMD FX @ 4.2ghz.
You DO NOT have to spend a bundle though, if you just play casual games like this one, a PENTIUM ANNIVERSARY EDITION (see link below) is like 70 U$D. Dual core + unlocked!

I upgraded to an AMD FX 6300 from an Athlon II, and improvement (for Gnomoria) was... lackluster (though, in other games and in the OS itself, performance was much better). My OpenTTD (another game) did speed up quite a bit - but that was multicore. Not happy with my computer, I built an entire new one with an i7 4790k ... and I went from 30fps to 100fps. Even with a normal map on it, with LOTS of water moving around, it's still playable and decent. It's really hard to get this to lag unless you have LOTS of stuck monsters (beetles, mants that can't get to you, or a large discovered but not lit up CAVE).
*Deep mining level advice: When you dig your stairs down to the mine, keep them in the same relative 'spot' in the map, so the gnomes can get down quickly without walking ALL OVER THE PLACE. When you get to a low level... start building scaffolds up through the rock. Put a torch next to them every 5 floors to keep them lit (the light shines THROUGH it like glass so no worries) to keep monsters from showing up on it.
This essentially is an ELEVATOR.
Gnomes using this elevator, if it is built properly, can hit one spot on any floor and instantly be able to go to any other floor! It's a wonder for your floor plan, especially on TINY maps. If you build it, say from floor -60 to the surface, you might notice a bit of FPS improvement as gnomes no longer use the stairs. Gnomes will keep using the stairs if it is NOT a shortcut. It doesn't have to let off at every floor, every few floors is fine. This actually WORKS. It might double your FPS if you have a really abstract layout... or it might just add 3fps, or not change at all. Depends what kind of activity you've got going on and how the pathfinding is working with the Z levels.
Should you choose to mine deeper (for example, below -60 as I mentioned above)... you can just find the same x-y coordinate spot and build the scaffold up into the bottom of your existing 'elevator' shaft... and it'll connect without knocking the existing elevator/scaffold down. It's pretty easy to build. Just start @ the bottom (or as low as you are currently) and build scaffold, wait, scroll up one floor, build another, wait, scroll up a floor, build another, repeat until complete.

Keep your idle gnomes busy and your workshops empty and make sure to haul your ores/coal/raw stone up to the workshop area, don't leave it laying in the mine while bars and blocks must be made on floor -7 while the stuff is on -60!!! Full workshops will cause LAG.
Don't make 10x10 stockpiles or larger. Sell off huge overstocks or get prospecting. Don't OVERMINE. Use the mine-wall tool to select an area, then use replace-wall (with anything) and go over the space (but do it paused, don't let them replace the wall, just use it to see), and see where you really DO need to mine, it'll show you where the ores are. Then you don't OVERMINE. It may be cheating, but if that's preventing a LAGGED-OUT-DEATH then that's fine by me. The more you mine, the ever-so-slightly-slower it will get. The deeper you go, the more lag you will get, more noticable on AMD systems.
Setting ore depths to SHALLOW can help here.
Also, you can set the MAX NUMBER OF GNOMES for your kingdom now in the population tab (it's somewhere in there).
BEETLES WILL LAG ANY GAME TO DEATH IF NOT FOUND QUICK ENOUGH! Turn them off if you don't want to race against the clock.

Pentium Anniversary Edition for Socket 1150 Motherboards
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117374
Put this CPU on an approved 8 or 9 series intel chipset motherboard from ASUS or GIGABYTE, and pickup 8gb of ram, and you'll be set. If you're not going to overclock, get an i3 or an i5. Dont feel pressed to get a K version if you're not interested in overclocking, buying a custom cooler, etc.

Gnomoria doesn't care HOW MANY CORES you have. It only uses ONE, it only EVER uses ONE. It is not multi-processor friendly YET. This is planned, but nothing is in stone yet. We can only hope. You need the fastest per-core cpu you can get. For the money, your best speeds are:

Penium Anniversary Edition dual-core cpu: 70$
Core i5 4690k (or 4670k is next one older): 220$ (any i5 of the 3000, 4000, or upcoming 5000 series will do really, same for next cpu listed below)
Core i7 4790k (or 4770k is next one older) 330$

(white socket boards) AMD PHENOM II X4/X6 BLACK EDITION 3.0ghz-3.6ghz: 100$ or around there, may find used cpu on starmicroinc.net too. I have ordered with them, they are pretty reliable.
(black socket boards)AMD FX 6xxx or 8xxx CPU: 110-220$

Price is in USD $ White socket AMD boards are am2+ am3 boards Black socket amd boards are am3+ and generally will take the AMD FX series cpus (excluding the AM3+ AMD FX 9xxx series which is limited to certain boards with the 990fx chipset and a 200+ watt TDP rated socket).

References:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html (the gnomoria speed list!)
www.newegg.com for prices and fast shipping/reputation is A+
www.starmicroinc.net for prices, decent shipping, and availability of new AND USED cpu.

Don't be limited to what I tell you, do some research yourself.
If you decide to do-it-yourself upgrade, just skip cheap motherboards (and MSI/Jetway motherboards) if you are overclocking because the vrm's on the motherboard don't always have the best quality or best cooling, and can overheat (with all the risks that inherently brings).

For AMD folks, please DON'T be insulted by what I've said, it's in no way AMD bashing. I seriously was happy with my AMD FX, until I ran gnomoria, and it was just as rotten slow (almost) as my Phenom II and athlon II were. Sure, there was maybe a 25-40% improvement - I got 11fps instead of 8fps... not good enough when the intel gave me 25-30 fps on the same scene. So now the AMD FX pc is the linux box - all is not lost :) It's really good @ that.
To those who can tolerate the Gnomoria speeds with the elevator trick I explained above... honestly there isn't that incredibly much different in 3d games with AMD as they depend more on your video card (until AI comes into play, that's beyond this already-too-long-article) so don't fret... all hope is not lost. Not when this game may be multicore one day.

Keep pressuring the DEVELOPER but BE FRIENDLY. http://forums.gnomoria.com