Socialist Economy Strategy

[EdhyRa]

Just wondering, did anyone try to do 100% Income Tax, then do periodic subsidy for each Rats to fulfill their needs everyday (let's say 50+ coins each). In that way, everyone has equal pay, so you don't need to worry about wealth gap anymore :)

Of course it's gonna take a big hit on happiness, hopes the devs fix it so Income/Tax satisfaction include income from subsidy too. But, is this really gonna work tho?

[ThatOtherGuy]

Or just don't tax poor people?

[Terminator]

i made 30% full tax for those who have more than 800 gold - works perfectly

[Zeion]

from my perspective is you're wrong because every rat need more than 100+ gold per day for everything they do especially the necessity things and they will very unhappy for those tax and make revolt. if you control tax perfectly you can make everyone happy and you money will not ran out until you can mint them.

keep that in mind if you want every rat even the unemployed one rich (become middle - high tier) you need to give them more gold when they're doing chore like mining and gathering. but anyway if you just want to torture your colony its up to your play style.

https://steamcommunity.com/id/doomZeion/screenshot/2219773166245355532/

this is my hard mode city with only middle-high tier in the town (just wanna try to make 100 rat go high tier) but it took sometime because you need at least 300k economy for circulate through them. and I love the bug that show you the lowest happiness is 0 because I didn't have any poor tier in my city lol

[avil]

WYM wealth gap? Wealthy rats can buy expensive consumables to make their stats big from buffs that consumables give. Why would you want your rats be weak and puny?
Unless you mean take 100% wealth and give back ~4000 coins (because there are not enough slots to allow ALL noble buildings and consumables be used by ALL classes).
But I think it would be easier to just tax a small amount from rich rats and float at about ~10k of reserve.

[JovianStorm]

You misunderstand socialism. You don't tax income, you tax wealth. Tax 50% of everyone who has 300, then 1000, then 6000 pia wealth. Give 150, then 300, then 2000 to everyone who has less than 100, 600 and 3000 pia wealth. You will need Shrine of Rat to do this and run around the base!

How this works:
At first you keep everyone poor but equal with 300 pia wealth. As your economy grows, once you reach about 10k savings despite population of 30, you can transfer everyone to middle class (total amount of money in circulation should be over 15 k for 30 rats to be middle class). You'll need around 450k pia in circulation to transfer 50 rats to nobles, but to keep with their demands you'll need to import a lot of luxury items and export a lot of things too. You can get the nobles but it is hard to keep the nobles, in my opinion. Middle class I was able to keep indefinitely. For a rat to be middle class, they need to have 500 wealth and have their middle class needs met. For them to be noble, they need 3000 pia wealth. So the calculation is easy. You need to have 500* number of rats + some buffer for trading and rebellion prevention for everyone to be middle class. Same thing only 3000* number of rats for golden leaves.

In real world, there is no way to determine someone's actual wealth, so governments implement progressive income taxes instead. You could accomplish the same thing with 50% income tax for income over 100, 75% for income over 150 and 90% income tax for income over 180 I guess, but that is making things needlessly difficult.

[Bunzel Underscore Channel]

your coins don't get collected instantly so you'll get nothing but starvation happening from doing what you describe.

Just like real life.

[JovianStorm]

Originally posted by Bunzel Underscore Channel:

your coins don't get collected instantly so you'll get nothing but starvation happening from doing what you describe.

Just like real life.

Not if you have Shrine of Rat and collect them yourself by running around the base or standing near food storage box around midnight. I got 70 happiness easily this way.

[redhongkong]

50 ant gonna be enough, i gave them 600wealth >33%tax(200ish), 200+200welfare
and i still see some with as little as 15coins

so they spend multiple times a day when they have high desire

[x-kdn]

I allow my ratizens to use toilet for free, so they do it 3 times in a row.

[oohhboy]

The tax doesn't need a multi tiered system. Two laws. 1# a living allowance below $300 wealth to get $300. 2# Your current sustainable wealth limit per rat taxed at 15%. Example you want your rats to have $600 set tax to collect at $700+ at 15%. All rats should hover a bit above 600. Because you are taxing wealth, high income can't run away with all the money. Later you can uncap the living allowance which lets low income rats accumulate savings.

Taxing income is a waste of time, rats don't care about progressive marginal tax rates. All that matters is how much you need to keep government running and how much per rat in circulation. The actual price of an amenity doesn't matter as long as it can be purchased, theoretically, you could set them all to zero removing the user pays system, simplifying finances, so communism?!. If you are running low on money, just lower the wealth cap and mint/trade more money, you have too many rats in too small economy or maybe you have high wealth rats dying.

[The Former]

Sounds like plan, comrat!

[lukamotel]

is that what you think socialism is? no wonder so many ppl hate it... no, you would have a wealth tax, mine is at 25% over 200, and i do a welfare of 100 for wealth under 100. Realistically youd also subsidize food and toilets, but im too lazy to do all that lol.

[oohhboy]

Originally posted by lukamotel:

is that what you think socialism is? no wonder so many ppl hate it... no, you would have a wealth tax, mine is at 25% over 200, and i do a welfare of 100 for wealth under 100. Realistically youd also subsidize food and toilets, but im too lazy to do all that lol.

You don't need to directly subsidise toilets etc, just give them pia. However setting base amenities price to zero is a reversible quasi quantitative easing. So if you are running out of pia, make them free and lower the wealth cap.

I have no idea what "System" it is as they encompass not just economic, but social expectations. It's not socialist, communistic, capitalistic, the purge nor apocalypses bunker economics.

The rats have no ideology nor concept of "money", unless rioting, "suicide" or crying below certain happiness is "Ideology". Maybe the closest thing to what rats system would be the company town, but that doesn't work as you can trade outside with Pia, which can't be done with company script. Pia is ration card without actual rationing as a high income rat can still "buy more" that poor rats can't. High income is a spend it or lose it system, above the wealth cap given is it a "Closed" system with a single shop purchases is a not-tax.

Simply put, this economic system is impossible in the real world with current constraints. Once enough wealth is in the rats economic system, it is post scarcity, you work because you like it, but Rats work because that's their job you gave them.

Once you understand the rats system, Pia is a trivial consideration outside of trading, solved by building more (pia) pylons as you will as the code stone prevents you from making everything "free".

tl:dr The real currency is rat hours, not Pia.

[NONAME]

set 5 taxes of 1000 pia each, because of a bug, each rat pays 5000, even if they have no money.