Need more poplulation!

[LinCR]

The limit now is 100 rats, but to build a fully functioning city we need more than 100 rats.
I want to expand my empire, but I don't have enough rats...

[FreedomFighter]

You don't need many rats to make a fully functioning city. Trade exists for a reason.

[Vito]

I've reached max prosperity with almost entirely noble population, what is your definition of "functioning"?

[FreedomFighter]

Originally posted by Vito:

I've reached max prosperity with almost entirely noble population, what is your definition of "functioning"?

Basic needs met. That it. Necessities are luxury. You don't need them unless you want to upping their class. Class doesn't give much to begin with. Just 5%, and 10% more productive.

Once you get to trading, you can just trade your renewable to buy copper/gold ores then mint them for Pia which then you trade those for what you are lacking.

Services are more burden to keep around. You don't need all of them. Toilets, and Bathhouse required no workers nor resources. Bathhouse also gives 20 stamina upon usage. Laundry, and Hairshop are probably the best one you want.

Trading reduces labor. Less labor = Less resources to tend them. If you want to fill a ratizen to every single buildings then that is roughly 60 rats in total. You can only double or triple up some of them before you have to increase both foods, and necessities production to keep them around.

[Flavalicious]

I thought you needed more then 100 originally too. But this time i build a proper city, did everything right and i still only have about 75 employed rats, leaving 25 left over to help gather/fix/build/mine/haul.

If you need more then 100 you have other issues at play in your city

[Naxos]

I half expect Ratrons to make up for the population cap ;D

[redhongkong]

maybe just let us fire someone and hire new one XD make everyone 20%efficient, that way u basicly having 120 rats XD

[yakerisu]

I have 65 rats and city running good.

Some building require more rats and building to running , like bar , it is not good choice if you have population issue.
Bathing spot , Barber, Toilet are your good friend for take care your rats's hygiene .
Bathing spot and Toilet no need rat to running , Barber only need tool to running.

Bread and Grilled mushroom are good way to feed your rats.
Wheat are everywhere and Mushroom farm only need 4 wood to running.
But keep a group of meat production rats to hunting rabbit for winter.

Use Proposed law let every level rats can eat and use those stuff .

[Krowle]

Originally posted by redhongkong:

maybe just let us fire someone and hire new one XD make everyone 20%efficient, that way u basicly having 120 rats XD

Actually +20% is not that great, it is a flat plus percentage where you can just level up your rat attribute to get it. For late game, I think -30% decline rate stuff like ness/food/joy is way more useful. lower upkeep = better profit in the long run.

[Zeion]

at least you can make it into 102 by receiving 3 of them at 99/100, so you will have the extra 2 workers to do something instead of 100.

[redhongkong]

Originally posted by Krowle:

Originally posted by redhongkong:

maybe just let us fire someone and hire new one XD make everyone 20%efficient, that way u basicly having 120 rats XD

Actually +20% is not that great, it is a flat plus percentage where you can just level up your rat attribute to get it. For late game, I think -30% decline rate stuff like ness/food/joy is way more useful. lower upkeep = better profit in the long run.

depends how u do the math
if five +20% worker output six workers' workload , u saved 1worker's food and necessity and free up a slot for others to get entertained.

if 1 worker only gets -30%food lets pretend those are 33%, and 3 only save u 1man's food, but they still use 3 workers' necessity and entertainment slots

but -30% necessity seems to bennfit slightly more, that means it could be 1 less cloth shoes or oil etc these items might take longer to make.

-30% joy is just not worth it unless u only have entertainment industry at central base and need super long rail or lift to get to. then u might need it, but i would just build a entertainment industry in a distant mini base.

[Krowle]

Originally posted by redhongkong:

Originally posted by Krowle:

Actually +20% is not that great, it is a flat plus percentage where you can just level up your rat attribute to get it. For late game, I think -30% decline rate stuff like ness/food/joy is way more useful. lower upkeep = better profit in the long run.

depends how u do the math
if five +20% worker output six workers' workload , u saved 1worker's food and necessity and free up a slot for others to get entertained.

if 1 worker only gets -30%food lets pretend those are 33%, and 3 only save u 1man's food, but they still use 3 workers' necessity and entertainment slots

but -30% necessity seems to bennfit slightly more, that means it could be 1 less cloth shoes or oil etc these items might take longer to make.

-30% joy is just not worth it unless u only have entertainment industry at central base and need super long rail or lift to get to. then u might need it, but i would just build a entertainment industry in a distant mini base.

No, it is not that multiply 20%. It is a flat +20% boost. So it won't be five rat turn to six rats in all means. If your rat base stat boost is 200%, it will only turn to 220%.

Let's not forget that +20% only affect production job type only and it takes only a few number to get that 20% before climbing behind 15. Also, those reduce decline rate also help keep the rat keep doing their job longer and which also reduce travel time going between building, which means more efficiency and productivity. Once your rat reach 15-20stat mark, a flat +20% productive does give very minimal return during late game. 200% vs 220% doesn't change much.

To be honest, +10% movement speed is far better useful unless you have a position that have bed, chest, joy, work place close to each other within 10 tiles for a rat to work which is very limited. I do specific pick +20% too but never go above 6-8 per game.

Also do note that. When you hire a ratizen, a rat with a high int will gain faster level up on all attribute which is far more beneficial boost in productivity and versatile in the long run. Compared to the one that has skill but slow on lvl gain. They will reach +200% boost slower than those who have less travel time to a chest or a rat with high int stat. Smart rat learn to run(increase in dex) and do work faster when their job primary stat level up so fast.

A rat with 0-2int will takes in game years to reach 15stat. (But you could boost their int a bit power level by placing them to tax collector or mushroom farm(near chest) for some time too for a permanent exp boost from the int stat.

[redhongkong]

yea know its a flat 20%, their get things going faster early, and slowly loosing its benefit later. but i still consider it to be better option than anything else.

yes i use +10%speed one for gathering/hauling/police/maintenance etc

and -30% stamina on hunter

training INT on rats mhm, i might give it a try. but school +3 buff might be good choice
maybe i should put more schools around to train int and give +3buff

[Krowle]

Originally posted by redhongkong:

yea know its a flat 20%, their get things going faster early, and slowly loosing its benefit later. but i still consider it to be better option than anything else.

yes i use +10%speed one for gathering/hauling/police/maintenance etc

and -30% stamina on hunter

training INT on rats mhm, i might give it a try. but school +3 buff might be good choice
maybe i should put more schools around to train int and give +3buff

No matter how fast your rat produce speed, it will still consume the same among of resource to create one product.

Try playing a hard mode with 100 rat each all fully load with
gold jewel/ pot/cosmetic item / book/ etc. and see how they quickly drain the buff resources item from your box.
candle give your rats +2int
perfume give +3 int and +10 evasion / cosmetic for +3 dex
and manys more buff item.

You can try and see it yourself how powerful those -30 consumption rate when stacked.
It does actually give more output and makes your economy way less need to upkeep.
Less up keep = more option, easily more surplus to trade, doesn't need more position of man power to produce each of a single product to support all population. Effectively overall more efficient.

Of course, unless you go minimalist route you don't need those buff on easier game mode.

Do note, never pick +20% production with very low stat when you're high lv prosperity, those are a trap. They take ages to grow up and doesn't produce better speed when you're in a dire need of a talent to boost your economy fast.

Lastly, just imagine a 200 vs 220% rat, 10sec work and 9.x sec per item, but need to ditch work and take a break more often. Late game is just that. Your rat will spend more time on travel than work. +20% is It's a late game trap.

Edit: miss spelling and wrong wording.

[Bunzel Underscore Channel]

i havent really done the math on it but i found from start to late game -30% sleep rats are the most productive since they're awake and not spending time running to a bed as often.
Infact, if they're not using a crafting work station, they seem to be more productive even without beds compared to a normal rat.

[redhongkong]

Originally posted by Bunzel Underscore Channel:

i havent really done the math on it but i found from start to late game -30% sleep rats are the most productive since they're awake and not spending time running to a bed as often.
Infact, if they're not using a crafting work station, they seem to be more productive even without beds compared to a normal rat.

i usually put 200% bed next to their workstation, and they are usually within 10 tiles of storage/toilet/entertainment

those 3 tiles-tall building only gets 100%bunker beds(this run, might consider, giving them 200%bed next.)

heres my current layout
could use some improvement, this map start out with lots flower and bees nearby, so i rushed honey, and slowly moving building outward while changing main storage area to be producing flower and oil.

NE storage used to be rabbit meat farm, cancelled to replace them with weaving industry,

NW are newly build wood working sector.

SW military base

SE looking to build rabbit and leather work sector

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3088415179