Are Ratrons worth it?

[biuum der candyflipper]

Currently on my second run and im wondering if ratrons are worth it? I have the possibility to replace most of my workers with ratrons but their attributes seem so low that even with my rats being offshift half of time they perform/produce faster then ratrons. Is my assumption correct that basically every rat with (relevant) stat of 10+ outperforms ratrons? since ratrons max seems around 5?

[glass zebra]

Ratizens outperform Ratrons for many tasks (you also forgot all the buffs from Ratizens can get), but Ratrons don't need food, joy or hygiene and Ratizens have a population cap, while Ratrons have their own population cap.

Ratrons can be stacked on top of the Ratizens you have and can do pretty well in tasks that require little to no running (e.g. far from base or just shoveling coal all day). Seeing how they "only" require energy and some materials, there is also the question how you rate "worth it", sicne you could just use 2 Ratrons to do the task of 1 Ratizen, which could then do other things instead.

They are also easier to replace than some highly skilled Ratizen. Imo it is more of a question of how you want to grow your city than a simple "just better"/"just worse", which is great.

[biuum der candyflipper]

Im not sure how i want to use them, so bit indecisive on how to use them. One use-case i clearly see and use for outpost. Im tinkering with the idea of creating an isolated zone where they produce coal/electricity but since i can just stamp out of the ground wind farms i dont see any use atm, maybe for late game.

My first run stopped around day 460 and 68 ratizens. This run am at day 250 with 26 ratizens and base has around 350watt electricity. Currently squeezing prosperity level 4 with keeping ratizens poor and infrastructure points at max (hovering around 92k - 98k points). So every new ratizens will trigger prosperity 5 and weasels. What im missing for prosperity 5 is two halls full of traps. This is the point im at and thinking about what i could do more to squeeze prosperity 4 without triggering 5. An option could be move ratizens to tier 2+ buildings and replace tier 1 production by ratrons but i fear that the production rate/time will be painfully slow. I was also playing with the idea to move all ratizens to soldiers and do all the chores by ratrons could be funny but super troll. Not sure what i wanna do so i figured ask other ppls how they use them.

[DiscoZombie]

I think they're very much worth it, but annoying to get up and running. so many materials (and space) to set up power, set up rechargers, and then the ratrons themselves. I'd find it much less tedious if they didn't each need their own recharger, and could instead just use the nearest unoccupied charger. Or better yet, if the wireless charger were viable. The tooltip says it has a range of 40, but it seems to only have a range of 10 - and only 1 energy every 2 minutes?

[glass zebra]

Originally posted by DiscoZombie:

The tooltip says it has a range of 40, but it seems to only have a range of 10 - and only 1 energy every 2 minutes? :yawning_creep:

Is it 10-40 range maybe or just 10 max? Should probably have a bug report if the 10 is max

[DiscoZombie]

it's 10 max, and yeah, probably deserves a bug report

[biuum der candyflipper]

Originally posted by DiscoZombie:

I think they're very much worth it, but annoying to get up and running. so many materials (and space) to set up power, set up rechargers, and then the ratrons themselves. I'd find it much less tedious if they didn't each need their own recharger, and could instead just use the nearest unoccupied charger. Or better yet, if the wireless charger were viable. The tooltip says it has a range of 40, but it seems to only have a range of 10 - and only 1 energy every 2 minutes? :yawning_creep:

In your experience they can sustain a population of 50 - 100 ratizens? Or where do you use them? Building material exclusively? food production?

[biuum der candyflipper]

Maybe another question: can someone tell me how this whole efficiency thing works?

There is an relevant attribute (strength, agility, int) and an efficiency bonus (0-100%) and a required work (400, 800, 1200 etc.). I can observe every 5 in-game minutes(?) some work is done. How is this calculated? like attribute * 10 * efficiency% = work done?

[biuum der candyflipper]

ok, did some tests and indeed their efficiency looks like 50% of a ratizens with around 10points into a specific attribute, considering they work double the time it ends up same production rate. Where they fall off is on logistics, while ratizens are faster and can carry more, ratrons often need way more trips. Considering all factors i would say ratrons settle down somewhere around 40%- 70% ratizens efficiency, which is a good number imo. Therefore im going to replace all my working force with ratrons.

[glass zebra]

A Ratizen with around 10 in a stat should only be 50% more efficiency than a Ratron, not double that. Their low running speed (e.g. from not profiting from shoes) and low carry capacity (e.g. from not profiting from bags) is a pretty big downside, but that can be elevated a lot by putting storage close to their working spot. Did the 10point Ratizen maybe also have other boni like the %workspeed from class, ice cream, Ox shrine etc?

With jobs done there is also a small overhead of time for each recipe related to the animation played at the end. E.g. a tax worker will play that drawer animation before starting on the next workbar, which means at 20 int they still won't be twice as fast as a Ratizen with 0 int.

[biuum der candyflipper]

Ratizens meanwhile have quite some list of buffs. Currently sitting at 30 ratizens / 30 ratrons. Path to storage are optimized but still being able to carry only 2 ressources compared to ~10 is quite a huge difference nonetheless i do not regret spamming ratrons. At this point i will do another round of optmizations and check which buildings need lots of ressources/work or do not output enough to keep things going or have long pathways based on that i will move some ratrons and ratizens around.

[biuum der candyflipper]

Originally posted by biuum der candyflipper:

Maybe another question: can someone tell me how this whole efficiency thing works?

There is an relevant attribute (strength, agility, int) and an efficiency bonus (0-100%) and a required work (400, 800, 1200 etc.). I can observe every 5 in-game minutes(?) some work is done. How is this calculated? like attribute * 10 * efficiency% = work done?

still wondering about this one. If someone knows the answer its much appreciated

[glass zebra]

Originally posted by biuum der candyflipper:

Originally posted by biuum der candyflipper:

Maybe another question: can someone tell me how this whole efficiency thing works?

There is an relevant attribute (strength, agility, int) and an efficiency bonus (0-100%) and a required work (400, 800, 1200 etc.). I can observe every 5 in-game minutes(?) some work is done. How is this calculated? like attribute * 10 * efficiency% = work done?

still wondering about this one. If someone knows the answer its much appreciated

10 base work increased by efficiency %. Efficiency boni are all simply additive, so 20% from ice cream, 10% from high class and 100% from relevant stat on level 20 amounts to +130% efficiency, which means 10 * (1+1.3) = 23 work done every 5 in-game minutes. There is no rollover from last finished work, so e.g. a 200 work task like taxing will need 9 ticks (5*9=45 in-game min) to finish, then play a short finishing animation and then the next work will start at 0% again.

The total efficiency bonus is shown when you select a Ratizen in the building you want the work done. The % number shown is already made from all efficiency boni (including relevant stat) added up and the list of Ratizens you can select for the job are already sorted by that bonus.

Sadly the new milestone boni can be a bit confusing, since e.g. the % bonus for grills is already added for Ratizens that are assigned to the building, so it might look like your current worker is better than another, but just because the other worker does not have that milestone bonus shown.

[Nyxon]

My question is how I can keep "Discharged Ratrons" from constantly showing up in my alerts. I've only got 5 Ratrons going, all with chargers right next to them, and one wireless transmitter covering all of them, and I'm still having one or two discharging every cycle. Often I'm finding them lying down, out of energy, right next to the chargers. What am I doing wrong?

[glass zebra]

Originally posted by Nyxon:

My question is how I can keep "Discharged Ratrons" from constantly showing up in my alerts. I've only got 5 Ratrons going, all with chargers right next to them, and one wireless transmitter covering all of them, and I'm still having one or two discharging every cycle. Often I'm finding them lying down, out of energy, right next to the chargers. What am I doing wrong?

Do they have to run around a lot during their work? This might lead to them being super far away when they want to go sleeping and not being able to reach the charger. I am not sure if you only meant "charger next to their work station", but e.g. the destination chest for the work being done is super far away. Otherwise it sounds like a bug. There was one for Ratizens falling asleep on the ground despite having a bed, but that one got fixed.

[DiscoZombie]

Originally posted by biuum der candyflipper:

Originally posted by DiscoZombie:

I think they're very much worth it, but annoying to get up and running. so many materials (and space) to set up power, set up rechargers, and then the ratrons themselves. I'd find it much less tedious if they didn't each need their own recharger, and could instead just use the nearest unoccupied charger. Or better yet, if the wireless charger were viable. The tooltip says it has a range of 40, but it seems to only have a range of 10 - and only 1 energy every 2 minutes?

In your experience they can sustain a population of 50 - 100 ratizens? Or where do you use them? Building material exclusively? food production?

I personally don't rely on them to sustain my ratizens, just to supplement my workforce - especially at workstations far from my city center, since it's a real efficiency killer if a rat needs to walk back to town multiple times a day for food, hygiene or needs. But at this point, it sounds like you have much more experience with ratrons than I do, since I only have about 6 for my 80ish rats.