What's up with the Truth Ending?

[OwlStuff]

I just got the truth ending and I'm confused. Is Rhok'zan a bad guy?

[Shea McD]

I would say no, i really do think she just wants to be a kind of "mother" to all of humanity. Whether or not that's a good thing for humanity, who can say

[OwlStuff]

Originally posted by Shea McD:

I would say no, i really do think she just wants to be a kind of "mother" to all of humanity. Whether or not that's a good thing for humanity, who can say

What about all the shadow people? if they're the same as Buck and Stardust then they did the same ritual right?

[Shea McD]

that's possible, but i find it kinda strange that there's no hint of other immortals before this point. They could be after Stardust, maybe Rhok'zan wants to try and do it again at some point but Auntie Nyan keeps convincing people to betray her, she did want to punish her after all.

[OwlStuff]

Maybe that's it? The scene after not a direct continuation but a skip forward who knows how long?

[Rox]

Originally posted by Shea McD:

that's possible, but i find it kinda strange that there's no hint of other immortals before this point. They could be after Stardust, maybe Rhok'zan wants to try and do it again at some point but Auntie Nyan keeps convincing people to betray her, she did want to punish her after all.

Rhok'zan did mention other followers gaining immortality before and "usually going mad within a year". My guess is that this has happened MANY times in the past and Buck and Stardust are just the latest in the cycle.

[Papa Owl]

Originally posted by Rox:

Originally posted by Shea McD:

that's possible, but i find it kinda strange that there's no hint of other immortals before this point. They could be after Stardust, maybe Rhok'zan wants to try and do it again at some point but Auntie Nyan keeps convincing people to betray her, she did want to punish her after all.

Rhok'zan did mention other followers gaining immortality before and "usually going mad within a year". My guess is that this has happened MANY times in the past and Buck and Stardust are just the latest in the cycle.

She doesn't mention full immortality. She says when they get increased lifespans. I think it's the case that only Buck and Stardust ever got the full immortality, and others got for lack of a term functional immortality because Rhok'zan can increase people's lifespans unnaturally without actually making them permanent immortals with Buck is.

[Bibohz]

i assumed it was more like from aunty nyan nyas view, she did want us to kinda betray Rhok'zan, after we went through all that Rhok'zan can finally have a sweet dream with MC a dream without buck she can see the world she was even chatting with MC familie and yet we decided to burn the wood ending this sweet dream after ages, we did hat aunty nyan nyan wanted to show her human and eldric gods dont belong together and yet again another human has betrayed her even after they went through all that nighmare. Imaging after so many nightmare you can finally spend time with your beloved one and that person just pushes you away

[mldb88]

From what I understand, it's exactly as it says on the tin. Anyone who comes to destroy the Black Woods eventually comes to worship it, the passage written in every iteration of the summoning book. While in a bit of a roundabout way, that's exactly what happened. Stardust originally wanted to burn down the Black Woods, and not even for Rhox'zahn's sake, they just so happened to share a common goal. Through the course of the game Stardust ended up falling for Rhoxi, and came to love her, and by extension the Black Woods itself. The Truth Ending is simply the realization that despite both their best intentions, Stardust realizing that the Black Wood will have essentially just claimed another victim if she DOESN'T burn it to ash.

[CotePathos_EpochToaster]

Originally posted by mldb88:

From what I understand, it's exactly as it says on the tin. Anyone who comes to destroy the Black Woods eventually comes to worship it, the passage written in every iteration of the summoning book. While in a bit of a roundabout way, that's exactly what happened. Stardust originally wanted to burn down the Black Woods, and not even for Rhox'zahn's sake, they just so happened to share a common goal. Through the course of the game Stardust ended up falling for Rhoxi, and came to love her, and by extension the Black Woods itself. The Truth Ending is simply the realization that despite both their best intentions, Stardust realizing that the Black Wood will have essentially just claimed another victim if she DOESN'T burn it to ash.

But stardust initially wanted to destroy the woods because they wanted to stop people from disappearing. With buck's torture ended the woods no longer make people disappear, they no longer drive people to exhaustion. Hell, given her parents are right next to Rhokzane and NOT ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ eachother means even her lust aura might be significantly diminished.

Besides, the woods have covered the world. burning it now would be killing all the people she initially wanted to save from them. and to even get this far requires finding non-violent solutions to dealing with every member of the thousand, so solving the problem of the black woods without destroying it by means of the power of love meshes with the rest of the story.

If I had to guess, Saving the cultists was initially optional, but not doing it led to the "Burn the woods" ending. But they ran out of time to make the "stardust becomes a murderer playthrough" so they just made it a choice at the end.

[mldb88]

Originally posted by Cote Pathos:

Originally posted by mldb88:

From what I understand, it's exactly as it says on the tin. Anyone who comes to destroy the Black Woods eventually comes to worship it, the passage written in every iteration of the summoning book. While in a bit of a roundabout way, that's exactly what happened. Stardust originally wanted to burn down the Black Woods, and not even for Rhox'zahn's sake, they just so happened to share a common goal. Through the course of the game Stardust ended up falling for Rhoxi, and came to love her, and by extension the Black Woods itself. The Truth Ending is simply the realization that despite both their best intentions, Stardust realizing that the Black Wood will have essentially just claimed another victim if she DOESN'T burn it to ash.

But stardust initially wanted to destroy the woods because they wanted to stop people from disappearing. With buck's torture ended the woods no longer make people disappear, they no longer drive people to exhaustion. Hell, given her parents are right next to Rhokzane and NOT ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ eachother means even her lust aura might be significantly diminished.

Besides, the woods have covered the world. burning it now would be killing all the people she initially wanted to save from them. and to even get this far requires finding non-violent solutions to dealing with every member of the thousand, so solving the problem of the black woods without destroying it by means of the power of love meshes with the rest of the story.

If I had to guess, Saving the cultists was initially optional, but not doing it led to the "Burn the woods" ending. But they ran out of time to make the "stardust becomes a murderer playthrough" so they just made it a choice at the end.

That's the thing though, it wasn't Buck that was making people disappear into the woods. Sure he accelerated the hell out of the process in order to torment Rhox'zahn but she even spells it out for us very early in the game when talking about how the woods works. It amplifies desires and warps people's perceptions of reality drawing them in. The photo of Star's parents being in actuality a receipt being one of the few the game actually tells us about, and there's plenty more that are implied or that the game doesn't spell out for us.

If the Woods has that great of an effect of drawing people in and amplifying their desires to the point of self destruction (note how the game mentions you don't notice how tired you are or feel any of your wounds, or see the actual state of your body, the state of some of the cultists the game mentions being on the brink of death, etc), it stands to reason that almost EVERYTHING the game presents through the lens of the main character's perspective has to be put into question. That beautiful peaceful moment in the "Good" ending with everyone getting along, how much of that is real? Is everyone really in that state, or are their bodies withering away from malnourishment, starvation, and general neglect as they pursue only what they desire?

The black woods covering the world is likely a much much worse ending the more you think about it from the outside looking in, picking up on all the subtle clues the game leaves telling you that things aren't as they seem, and perhaps the better choice was to burn the woods, wake her and start anew.

[CotePathos_EpochToaster]

Originally posted by mldb88:

Originally posted by Cote Pathos:

But stardust initially wanted to destroy the woods because they wanted to stop people from disappearing. With buck's torture ended the woods no longer make people disappear, they no longer drive people to exhaustion. Hell, given her parents are right next to Rhokzane and NOT ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ eachother means even her lust aura might be significantly diminished.

Besides, the woods have covered the world. burning it now would be killing all the people she initially wanted to save from them. and to even get this far requires finding non-violent solutions to dealing with every member of the thousand, so solving the problem of the black woods without destroying it by means of the power of love meshes with the rest of the story.

If I had to guess, Saving the cultists was initially optional, but not doing it led to the "Burn the woods" ending. But they ran out of time to make the "stardust becomes a murderer playthrough" so they just made it a choice at the end.

That's the thing though, it wasn't Buck that was making people disappear into the woods. Sure he accelerated the hell out of the process in order to torment Rhox'zahn but she even spells it out for us very early in the game when talking about how the woods works. It amplifies desires and warps people's perceptions of reality drawing them in. The photo of Star's parents being in actuality a receipt being one of the few the game actually tells us about, and there's plenty more that are implied or that the game doesn't spell out for us.

If the Woods has that great of an effect of drawing people in and amplifying their desires to the point of self destruction (note how the game mentions you don't notice how tired you are or feel any of your wounds, or see the actual state of your body, the state of some of the cultists the game mentions being on the brink of death, etc), it stands to reason that almost EVERYTHING the game presents through the lens of the main character's perspective has to be put into question. That beautiful peaceful moment in the "Good" ending with everyone getting along, how much of that is real? Is everyone really in that state, or are their bodies withering away from malnourishment, starvation, and general neglect as they pursue only what they desire?

The black woods covering the world is likely a much much worse ending the more you think about it from the outside looking in, picking up on all the subtle clues the game leaves telling you that things aren't as they seem, and perhaps the better choice was to burn the woods, wake her and start anew.

But it's not starting anew, is it? The woods grew in between loops, and once entered they can never meaningfully be left.burning them now kills almost all of humanity, and when the dream begins again the woods begins with them.

[Spike]

Honestly, I think it's just a whole bunch of deliberate glossing over to give us, or really Stardust and Rhok'zan, a happy ending. There are a few plot holes already but I think we're supposed to just accept what we see at the end as is instead of questioning it too hard about how it should have turned out. Let's simply accept the warm fuzzies instead of looking too deep for the dark twisted 'truth', even if dark and twisted is more on brand for eldritch entities. Yes, it's part horror game, but it's also significantly a dating sim that ends incredibly wholesomely (or it does at least if you pick that available and encouraged ending), so I'm personally choosing not to ruin that and I'd encourage similar.

[skiv1]

When Stardust is stabbed by Nanny, her seeing her wounded and bleeding hand is the truth. When she grows horns, her furry body and hoarse voice is the truth. Rhok'zan being and eldritch abomination that warps humans' perception of reality is the truth. And that happy sunny picture of everyone getting alone not being what it seems, but actually something much worse, is the truth. I'm sorry, Rhok'zan, you may have charmed me and in a way, that is a fair game, but I will not turn away from truth. So I shall drinking this aqua regia, no matter how bitter it is.

Or in short: Rhok'zan is the Matrix and I'm swallowing a red pill with a very, very heavy heart.

[KingDoity]

Originally posted by mldb88:

Originally posted by Cote Pathos:

But stardust initially wanted to destroy the woods because they wanted to stop people from disappearing. With buck's torture ended the woods no longer make people disappear, they no longer drive people to exhaustion. Hell, given her parents are right next to Rhokzane and NOT ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ eachother means even her lust aura might be significantly diminished.

Besides, the woods have covered the world. burning it now would be killing all the people she initially wanted to save from them. and to even get this far requires finding non-violent solutions to dealing with every member of the thousand, so solving the problem of the black woods without destroying it by means of the power of love meshes with the rest of the story.

If I had to guess, Saving the cultists was initially optional, but not doing it led to the "Burn the woods" ending. But they ran out of time to make the "stardust becomes a murderer playthrough" so they just made it a choice at the end.

That's the thing though, it wasn't Buck that was making people disappear into the woods. Sure he accelerated the hell out of the process in order to torment Rhox'zahn but she even spells it out for us very early in the game when talking about how the woods works. It amplifies desires and warps people's perceptions of reality drawing them in. The photo of Star's parents being in actuality a receipt being one of the few the game actually tells us about, and there's plenty more that are implied or that the game doesn't spell out for us.

If the Woods has that great of an effect of drawing people in and amplifying their desires to the point of self destruction (note how the game mentions you don't notice how tired you are or feel any of your wounds, or see the actual state of your body, the state of some of the cultists the game mentions being on the brink of death, etc), it stands to reason that almost EVERYTHING the game presents through the lens of the main character's perspective has to be put into question. That beautiful peaceful moment in the "Good" ending with everyone getting along, how much of that is real? Is everyone really in that state, or are their bodies withering away from malnourishment, starvation, and general neglect as they pursue only what they desire?

The black woods covering the world is likely a much much worse ending the more you think about it from the outside looking in, picking up on all the subtle clues the game leaves telling you that things aren't as they seem, and perhaps the better choice was to burn the woods, wake her and start anew.

You can actually prove that it's all an illusion (not sure if this one is a bug or not but I don't think it is) but if you go to your brothers room and put your mouse cursor over his desk you'll still be able to interact with the pale flower even though you can't see it. also before you leave the House Nanni will say how The House looks to her like how the wallpaper is peeling, but to us it looks fine and how the floorboards look rotten but again they look completely fine to Stardust also when you go outside and you get the good ending, the bottom will say true ending instead of good ending.

I'm pretty sure the game is a cycle. So by leaving you'll become the new buck because when you turn around after talking to the people at the exit you are objectives will start talking to you i'm pretty sure that it's another God talking to you i'm pretty sure that this God was controlling Buck somehow because it talks about you being the replacement so it's most likely pulling a events along just like how Roxanne said we came out of nowhere to stop her nightmares meaning that she's had many more without us being there, but we eventually just show up one day i'm pretty sure. Is the work of this god.

Sorry if this is a bit sporadic written, but things kept coming to me when I was writing. Like what if Bucks plan to wake up all the god was not his plan but instead the plan of the
Objective God i'm thinking this because what if this God is tired of living, but he is also immortal so the only way to kill himself would be too end all of reality. i been thinking about other things too, but I don't know how they fit in or just some theories

[StarForger]

Originally posted by KingDoity:

Originally posted by mldb88:

That's the thing though, it wasn't Buck that was making people disappear into the woods. Sure he accelerated the hell out of the process in order to torment Rhox'zahn but she even spells it out for us very early in the game when talking about how the woods works. It amplifies desires and warps people's perceptions of reality drawing them in. The photo of Star's parents being in actuality a receipt being one of the few the game actually tells us about, and there's plenty more that are implied or that the game doesn't spell out for us.

If the Woods has that great of an effect of drawing people in and amplifying their desires to the point of self destruction (note how the game mentions you don't notice how tired you are or feel any of your wounds, or see the actual state of your body, the state of some of the cultists the game mentions being on the brink of death, etc), it stands to reason that almost EVERYTHING the game presents through the lens of the main character's perspective has to be put into question. That beautiful peaceful moment in the "Good" ending with everyone getting along, how much of that is real? Is everyone really in that state, or are their bodies withering away from malnourishment, starvation, and general neglect as they pursue only what they desire?

The black woods covering the world is likely a much much worse ending the more you think about it from the outside looking in, picking up on all the subtle clues the game leaves telling you that things aren't as they seem, and perhaps the better choice was to burn the woods, wake her and start anew.

You can actually prove that it's all an illusion (not sure if this one is a bug or not but I don't think it is) but if you go to your brothers room and put your mouse cursor over his desk you'll still be able to interact with the pale flower even though you can't see it. also before you leave the House Nanni will say how The House looks to her like how the wallpaper is peeling, but to us it looks fine and how the floorboards look rotten but again they look completely fine to Stardust also when you go outside and you get the good ending, the bottom will say true ending instead of good ending.

I'm pretty sure the game is a cycle. So by leaving you'll become the new buck because when you turn around after talking to the people at the exit you are objectives will start talking to you i'm pretty sure that it's another God talking to you i'm pretty sure that this God was controlling Buck somehow because it talks about you being the replacement so it's most likely pulling a events along just like how Roxanne said we came out of nowhere to stop her nightmares meaning that she's had many more without us being there, but we eventually just show up one day i'm pretty sure. Is the work of this god.

Sorry if this is a bit sporadic written, but things kept coming to me when I was writing. Like what if Bucks plan to wake up all the god was not his plan but instead the plan of the
Objective God i'm thinking this because what if this God is tired of living, but he is also immortal so the only way to kill himself would be too end all of reality. i been thinking about other things too, but I don't know how they fit in or just some theories

Okay, here's my attempt to end this argument, maybe. So in the "Truth" ending we see multiple dark shades of humans just like Buck and Stardust, implying that "Insignificance" Auntie Nyan Nyan was addressing but this can be easily disproven to be just lifeless corpses floating in space. Due to the Fact that we know that his STARTED with Buck, Muu told us she made the book with Rhok'zan in the efforts of uniting humans and eldritch beings in peace, love, and equality. The story revolves around how Buck's stolen kiss and unwilling immortality ruined his mind. Stardust made her choice willingly so it would be improbable to assume she'd follow Buck's path especially since we see how Buck is so moved by the infinite splendors of the cosmos and gives up on his eternal hatred entirely. As for the "True/Good" ending to be an illusion this can be disproven too. It could be argued that the "Truth ending" was Stardust realizing more would die so as long as the forest clinged to the earth but that wouldn't be true. Because Rhok'zan explains her gifts of hunger lessness and disease immunity being part of what she brought to the world. The reason the dark forests killed so many was because of her heartbreak and how the forests became blood thirsty afterwards. With that now gone the world has gone green. The only reason that the house "MAY" be an illusion would be because of the deep rooted trauma that had occured in that house and it had yet to fully heal. In any case in my eyes the "Truth" ending gets it's name from how Auntie Nyan Nyan sees humans. "Prey" she loves conflict, adrenaline, FEAR she feeds off of it, we can prove this from the first game, but with Darling she referred to him as an insignificant spec or insect due to her own fear of him, he wasn't livestock anymore, he was a threat.