Demo Vs. Full Release story change?

[Celestial-Cutie]

Spoilering this for those who haven't found the secret ending!
(I'm also a chronic yapper, so I put a TL;DR at the end for brevity.)

As much as I love the Truth end for its fridge horror, something about its presence in the story rubs me the wrong way. Why? Because it directly goes against the original premise of the demo.

In the demo, the meet-cute (or meet-terror, in this case) for Stardust and Rhok'zan immediately set the tone for the game and the interactions between the two.
Stardust being asexual means she isn't driven mad in Rhok'zan's presence, but she still shows interest in her long before any real mental changes from the Woods begin to affect her. Rhok'zan herself lampshades this when she mentions that she only has a short period of time before her will breaks, meaning there is a set period of time before those in her aura start going mad. Rhok'zan is baffled that a human can show interest in her without lust being involved, which leads her to become romantically attracted to Stardust over time. It is a genuinely engaging love story that encourages the player to help Rhok'zan and Stardust find a happy ending.

That isn't present in the current full release. Instead, the game assumes players have seen / played the demo, and skips past the entire meet-cute. Some dialogue remains the same, but all of the set-up and emotion that came with the demo's introduction is completely gone. There is no motivation to help Rhok'zan, because she doesn't establish the stakes of the rituals and the cult's presence. We miss all the engaging dialogue that makes us want to help Rhok'zan get uprooted, and the romance falls flat as a result.

For a game that is supposed to be about dating / romancing Rhok'zan as you free her from the cult, the romance is nowhere near as engaging in the full release than it was in the demo. There's more romance between Stardust and Nanni, and she's only prominent in one chapter.

I do like that this lack of romance leads in well to the Truth ending. There is no genuine romance in the full game, so the reveal that you've been tainted by the Woods' influence and can undo your "happy ending" out of spite for Rhok'zan is both heartbreaking and sickening from an outsider's perspective. Especially after we see the cutscene of Rhok'zan waking up and telling little Ln'eta and Estir about loving humans instead of fearing them, because she immediately gets betrayed by Stardust in the next scene if you choose the Truth ending. It paints Stardust in a negative light, and it punishes Rhok'zan for trying to find actual happiness with someone who willingly chose to be with her forever. No one wins, and the cycle of abuse continues on. It would've made more sense if Stardust completed the last ritual so Rhok'zan could actually be uprooted, just like she asked, and allow her to come back to Stardust on her own terms - it would also tie in nicely with the first game's "'AwakEND Redux" ending, where Darling encourages Ln'eta to keep dreaming about him so they can have many more happy dreams together.

Long story short: this is a wonderfully executed horror game... but it isn't a dating sim anymore, it's a betrayal sim.
If the intro was changed to include the demo's original introduction, and the "betrayal" was more akin to Ln'eta's true chapter 2 end in the original, then this story could be a real dating sim. But right now, it isn't. It's just a doomed love story with no real happy ending.

[Caretaker]

Originally posted by Celestial-Cutie:

Spoilering this for those who haven't found the secret ending!
(I'm also a chronic yapper, so I put a TL;DR at the end for brevity.)

As much as I love the Truth end for its fridge horror, something about its presence in the story rubs me the wrong way. Why? Because it directly goes against the original premise of the demo.

In the demo, the meet-cute (or meet-terror, in this case) for Stardust and Rhok'zan immediately set the tone for the game and the interactions between the two.
Stardust being asexual means she isn't driven mad in Rhok'zan's presence, but she still shows interest in her long before any real mental changes from the Woods begin to affect her. Rhok'zan herself lampshades this when she mentions that she only has a short period of time before her will breaks, meaning there is a set period of time before those in her aura start going mad. Rhok'zan is baffled that a human can show interest in her without lust being involved, which leads her to become romantically attracted to Stardust over time. It is a genuinely engaging love story that encourages the player to help Rhok'zan and Stardust find a happy ending.

That isn't present in the current full release. Instead, the game assumes players have seen / played the demo, and skips past the entire meet-cute. Some dialogue remains the same, but all of the set-up and emotion that came with the demo's introduction is completely gone. There is no motivation to help Rhok'zan, because she doesn't establish the stakes of the rituals and the cult's presence. We miss all the engaging dialogue that makes us want to help Rhok'zan get uprooted, and the romance falls flat as a result.

For a game that is supposed to be about dating / romancing Rhok'zan as you free her from the cult, the romance is nowhere near as engaging in the full release than it was in the demo. There's more romance between Stardust and Nanni, and she's only prominent in one chapter.

I do like that this lack of romance leads in well to the Truth ending. There is no genuine romance in the full game, so the reveal that you've been tainted by the Woods' influence and can undo your "happy ending" out of spite for Rhok'zan is both heartbreaking and sickening from an outsider's perspective. Especially after we see the cutscene of Rhok'zan waking up and telling little Ln'eta and Estir about loving humans instead of fearing them, because she immediately gets betrayed by Stardust in the next scene if you choose the Truth ending. It paints Stardust in a negative light, and it punishes Rhok'zan for trying to find actual happiness with someone who willingly chose to be with her forever. No one wins, and the cycle of abuse continues on. It would've made more sense if Stardust completed the last ritual so Rhok'zan could actually be uprooted, just like she asked, and allow her to come back to Stardust on her own terms - it would also tie in nicely with the first game's "'AwakEND Redux" ending, where Darling encourages Ln'eta to keep dreaming about him so they can have many more happy dreams together.

Long story short: this is a wonderfully executed horror game... but it isn't a dating sim anymore, it's a betrayal sim.
If the intro was changed to include the demo's original introduction, and the "betrayal" was more akin to Ln'eta's true chapter 2 end in the original, then this story could be a real dating sim. But right now, it isn't. It's just a doomed love story with no real happy ending.

From what I gathered from the Truth End isn't so much that Stardust betrayed Rok'Zhan, it's the opposite. You notice all the different women in black silhouettes? Stardust isn't the first human she's done the ritual with, and it's inferred by Aunty Nyan Nyan that Rok'Zhan literally just did this to Buck who rushed the ritual and ended up how he did. Buck had the same relationship which is what the Truth ending is warning you about.

Granted, I could be wrong, but pretty sure that's what that ending was implying. You are not special, and Rhok'Zan WILL do this all over again.

[Celestial-Cutie]

Originally posted by Caretakersgt/ttv:

Originally posted by Celestial-Cutie:

Spoilering this for those who haven't found the secret ending!
(I'm also a chronic yapper, so I put a TL;DR at the end for brevity.)

As much as I love the Truth end for its fridge horror, something about its presence in the story rubs me the wrong way. Why? Because it directly goes against the original premise of the demo.

In the demo, the meet-cute (or meet-terror, in this case) for Stardust and Rhok'zan immediately set the tone for the game and the interactions between the two.
Stardust being asexual means she isn't driven mad in Rhok'zan's presence, but she still shows interest in her long before any real mental changes from the Woods begin to affect her. Rhok'zan herself lampshades this when she mentions that she only has a short period of time before her will breaks, meaning there is a set period of time before those in her aura start going mad. Rhok'zan is baffled that a human can show interest in her without lust being involved, which leads her to become romantically attracted to Stardust over time. It is a genuinely engaging love story that encourages the player to help Rhok'zan and Stardust find a happy ending.

That isn't present in the current full release. Instead, the game assumes players have seen / played the demo, and skips past the entire meet-cute. Some dialogue remains the same, but all of the set-up and emotion that came with the demo's introduction is completely gone. There is no motivation to help Rhok'zan, because she doesn't establish the stakes of the rituals and the cult's presence. We miss all the engaging dialogue that makes us want to help Rhok'zan get uprooted, and the romance falls flat as a result.

For a game that is supposed to be about dating / romancing Rhok'zan as you free her from the cult, the romance is nowhere near as engaging in the full release than it was in the demo. There's more romance between Stardust and Nanni, and she's only prominent in one chapter.

I do like that this lack of romance leads in well to the Truth ending. There is no genuine romance in the full game, so the reveal that you've been tainted by the Woods' influence and can undo your "happy ending" out of spite for Rhok'zan is both heartbreaking and sickening from an outsider's perspective. Especially after we see the cutscene of Rhok'zan waking up and telling little Ln'eta and Estir about loving humans instead of fearing them, because she immediately gets betrayed by Stardust in the next scene if you choose the Truth ending. It paints Stardust in a negative light, and it punishes Rhok'zan for trying to find actual happiness with someone who willingly chose to be with her forever. No one wins, and the cycle of abuse continues on. It would've made more sense if Stardust completed the last ritual so Rhok'zan could actually be uprooted, just like she asked, and allow her to come back to Stardust on her own terms - it would also tie in nicely with the first game's "'AwakEND Redux" ending, where Darling encourages Ln'eta to keep dreaming about him so they can have many more happy dreams together.

Long story short: this is a wonderfully executed horror game... but it isn't a dating sim anymore, it's a betrayal sim.
If the intro was changed to include the demo's original introduction, and the "betrayal" was more akin to Ln'eta's true chapter 2 end in the original, then this story could be a real dating sim. But right now, it isn't. It's just a doomed love story with no real happy ending.

From what I gathered from the Truth End isn't so much that Stardust betrayed Rok'Zhan, it's the opposite. You notice all the different women in black silhouettes? Stardust isn't the first human she's done the ritual with, and it's inferred by Aunty Nyan Nyan that Rok'Zhan literally just did this to Buck who rushed the ritual and ended up how he did. Buck had the same relationship which is what the Truth ending is warning you about.

Granted, I could be wrong, but pretty sure that's what that ending was implying. You are not special, and Rhok'Zan WILL do this all over again.

That is true, but if that is the case, why do we only know of Buck's presence at the beginning of the game? It seemed that he was the only one who successfully completed the ritual Muu designed to allow immortality, because he's the only true constant in all of Rhok'zan's worlds before Stardust becomes immortal.

I have a theory that after Rhok'zan found out Buck wasn't going to haunt her anymore, she decided to make the fully-rooted planet her permanent home. It is implied that there isn't strife, death, or pain in the rooted planet, as evidenced by Billie being cranky that she "didn't get all her energy out before the current world became peaceful".

Being immortal in a world where nothing can harm you would mean that you'd never get hurt, and you'd never deteriorate to Buck's condition / be driven mad by painfully dying over and over. Why wouldn't she give her family eternal life, spending her days with her gentle followers and living with Stardust forever? She probably didn't consider that Stardust could still end that reality and fully uproot her at that point, so all of the followers she granted eternal life would have suddenly became husks as the world burned.

[Caretaker]

Originally posted by Celestial-Cutie:

Originally posted by Caretakersgt/ttv:

From what I gathered from the Truth End isn't so much that Stardust betrayed Rok'Zhan, it's the opposite. You notice all the different women in black silhouettes? Stardust isn't the first human she's done the ritual with, and it's inferred by Aunty Nyan Nyan that Rok'Zhan literally just did this to Buck who rushed the ritual and ended up how he did. Buck had the same relationship which is what the Truth ending is warning you about.

Granted, I could be wrong, but pretty sure that's what that ending was implying. You are not special, and Rhok'Zan WILL do this all over again.

That is true, but if that is the case, why do we only know of Buck's presence at the beginning of the game? It seemed that he was the only one who successfully completed the ritual Muu designed to allow immortality, because he's the only true constant in all of Rhok'zan's worlds before Stardust becomes immortal.

I have a theory that after Rhok'zan found out Buck wasn't going to haunt her anymore, she decided to make the fully-rooted planet her permanent home. It is implied that there isn't strife, death, or pain in the rooted planet, as evidenced by Billie being cranky that she "didn't get all her energy out before the current world became peaceful".

Being immortal in a world where nothing can harm you would mean that you'd never get hurt, and you'd never deteriorate to Buck's condition / be driven mad by painfully dying over and over. Why wouldn't she give her family eternal life, spending her days with her gentle followers and living with Stardust forever? She probably didn't consider that Stardust could still end that reality and fully uproot her at that point, so all of the followers she granted eternal life would have suddenly became husks as the world burned.

Yea, it's a bit odd, but I'm not stellar at reading into these things. It could imply that she's done this multiple times and it didn't work. Could also imply this is a dream she had later as time in the void is essentially infinite. so she's gathered quite a few more people prior to her coming back. Only reason I lean towards her betraying Stardust is Aunty Nyan popping in to tell you that you're basically not the first, or the last. That and the butterfly still being trapped in the web. We also see that everyone isn't an eternal follower either, so we could be misreading, or it could just be a massive plothole.

[Rox]

I think it's implying that the other people floating in the void of space are previous lovers of Rhok'zan who steadily went insane over time and just outright gave up and are just floating in the void because nothing matters to them anymore.

Buck was just a determinator who had a plan to save himself and managed to stay sane enough to function.

[LittleThiefCat]

I think it's called the TRUTH ending instead of the TRUE ending because Stardust would never actually do it. It exists to shed some light on the reality of the situation for the player. Stardust's TRUE/canonical ending is living happily ever after in the fully rooted planet.

I do agree with your thoughts and criticisms otherwise.

[The Dapper Dragon]

I'm surprised anyone believes Nyan Nyan. We know her motivation, which is doubled here now that she has a personal beef with Rhox'ahn. Her trying to smeckledorf Stardust is totally in character.

Way more likely than 'Nyan is actually looking out for humanity and hates that this is happening to them.'

[Rox]

Originally posted by The Dapper Dragon:

I'm surprised anyone believes Nyan Nyan. We know her motivation, which is doubled here now that she has a personal beef with Rhox'ahn. Her trying to smeckledorf Stardust is totally in character.

Way more likely than 'Nyan is actually looking out for humanity and hates that this is happening to them.'

That's the thing, though, she doesn't like humanity, but she also doesn't like when her nieces so willy-nilly interact with them. She draws Stardust to the basement again to have her perform Uproot a final time to teach Rhok'zan a lesson and to basically wipe out humanity in this loop.

[MADPierro]

I find the truth ending to be depressing and sad, honnestly... This is everyone loss, Muu was wrong, Rok'Zhan is betrayed by the one she love, Stardust is now an immortal that is full of spite like Buck (wich is completly strange for her, it's so unlike everything she has done or say since the start), and the tragedy will repeat itself forever... In the first game, it wasn't this depressing. I will just try to convince myself that the good ending is the canon one.