Isnt Darrel and Leo duo too overpowered?

[deer]

Leo's Tough(take less damage) and Slugger(increase melee damage) make him perfect for scavenging, and no one cares about Voracious (more hungry each phase). Darrel's Iron Stomach and Bad Cook go well together, while he can support Leo by crafting melee weapons. Just finished 1 ending, so i wanna finish other ending with different duo but other duos are bad. Either they have bad traits or they dont work well as a duo. Just adjust some traits so there is a reason to pick another duo

[Invidious]

I don't think so. I think additional melee dmg isn't as good as it seems. You're better off picking characters that have perks towards discounted crafting and such. Quiet weapons one-shot zombies and a saber or axe to deal with multiple zombies at once has been pretty effective.

[celsius03]

Penny and Daphne is even more busted if you're using stealth properly
their downsides are completely negated, and have OP positives

other pairs are on a similar level. not good, not bad
i don't think there's any pair that's terrible

i also wanted to add, if you're using stealth,
Leo is just a bad character with no positives, and one of the actual bad negative
only saving quality with that pair is Darrel's crafting
a beginner friendly survivors that turns bad as you get good at the game
i say it's a good game design

[Icesteel]

Penny and Daphne are the most OP starting pair.

Daphne doesn’t do much damage, but she doesn’t need to. She should stay at the shelter anyway, and with her, you get top-tier food and med item production way earlier than you normally would (without needing to find Frank for food, or Aubrey/Miguel for medical supplies).

And with Penny, you can unlock no-hit runs as soon as you learn how to use stealth.
She barely makes any noise, even when walking, does a bit more damage, and while she can get Nightmares if hit, that doesn’t really matter as long as enemies don’t notice she’s even there.

[Arch]

I just finished my first playthrough with Penny and Daphne and it was super easy to snowball, by the end I had six survivors and a surplus of everything except screws/nuts

[deer]

Maybe i dont get why i need more silent. Because earlier i killed a zombie that was close to another zombie using an axe and the other zombie didnt notice at all. I had unlimited foods, first aid, lockpick at the end, so thats why i think daphne is not good. But if they add Curveball, food degrading, shelter breaches, then daphne might be reliable. I guess Traits will adjust themselves as the game updates

[celsius03]

Originally posted by deer:

Maybe i dont get why i need more silent. Because earlier i killed a zombie that was close to another zombie using an axe and the other zombie didnt notice at all. I had unlimited foods, first aid, lockpick at the end, so thats why i think daphne is not good. But if they add Curveball, food degrading, shelter breaches, then daphne might be reliable. I guess Traits will adjust themselves as the game updates

think about it, if you're not having any problems
what's more beneficial? more resources? or combat effectiveness?
the answer is neither, but more resources early game definitely help
accelerate your run to the point where you're describing of having unlimited stuff

sure the game is easy and forgiving enough that resources are plentiful
but do you need combat stats though?

there's no real winner here
if you're good at the game, you don't need either of it
if you're struggling, you'd want both of it

[GiantAnt]

Originally posted by celsius03:

Penny and Daphne is even more busted if you're using stealth properly
their downsides are completely negated, and have OP positives

other pairs are on a similar level. not good, not bad
i don't think there's any pair that's terrible

i also wanted to add, if you're using stealth,
Leo is just a bad character with no positives, and one of the actual bad negative
only saving quality with that pair is Darrel's crafting
a beginner friendly survivors that turns bad as you get good at the game
i say it's a good game design

After the first update they did where sound detection range was reduced 50% across the board, Penny's trait is a lot less useful. Pretty much any character will be sneaking 100% of the time, and stealth kills are one shot kills for any character, and you practically have to be standing on top of a background zombie to trigger it with any character stealth kill with a silent-ish weapon (tomahawk or less sound). I have never triggered a background zombie by sneaking around and looting with any character, I don't think it can actually happen.

Given that all characters can sneak successfully, that leaves you with "what happens if ♥♥♥♥ hits the fan and you have to fight". Here Leo is unrivaled, having both increased toughness and increased melee damage for all weapons.

On the "crafter" side, Daphne is better if Frank was not one of the first survivors you can pick up, and I hardly ever needed to craft a med-kit. BTW that is not really a synergy for Penny either as she should not get hit that much and not need medkits. Darrel on the other hand is useful because he can eat the otherwise useless dogfood, and craft cheaper melee weapons for Leo. Barb is only available a bit later in the game usually.

[celsius03]

i never said they're good because Penny helps you sneak well
(i understand most people say this so i understand)
however, jumping to conclusion on stuff i didn't say is uhh.. yea
i said if you use stealth, their negatives are completely negated
so all of this

Originally posted by GiantAnt:

After the first update they did where sound detection range was reduced 50% across the board, Penny's trait is a lot less useful. Pretty much any character will be sneaking 100% of the time, and stealth kills are one shot kills for any character, and you practically have to be standing on top of a background zombie to trigger it with any character stealth kill with a silent-ish weapon (tomahawk or less sound). I have never triggered a background zombie by sneaking around and looting with any character, I don't think it can actually happen.

is just a rant for nothing and you're only supporting me by saying

Originally posted by GiantAnt:

and stealth kills are one shot kills for any character

Originally posted by GiantAnt:

Given that all characters can sneak successfully, that leaves you with "what happens if ♥♥♥♥ hits the fan and you have to fight". Here Leo is unrivaled, having both increased toughness and increased melee damage for all weapons.

and for "sh*t hitting the fan" i said if you use stealth "properly"
i never engage in combat, but i can't expect everyone to play like me

however, how many 1v1 or 2v1 combat do you really engage in a single location,
with an added risk of alerting everything around you?
fighting 3v1 is pretty dumb so players should run
but with 1 or 2? maybe couple of fights? are you going down to your
last health point so that if it wasn't Leo, you would've died?

lets just be clear on things cuz i've also said
Darrel+Leo pair are beginner friendly, not useless or anything

Originally posted by GiantAnt:

On the "crafter" side, Daphne is better if Frank was not one of the first survivors you can pick up, and I hardly ever needed to craft a med-kit. BTW that is not really a synergy for Penny either as she should not get hit that much and not need medkits. Darrel on the other hand is useful because he can eat the otherwise useless dogfood, and craft cheaper melee weapons for Leo. Barb is only available a bit later in the game usually.

so the dude that has less inventory slots? why would i choose him over Daphne
if i'm also able to use Daphne on scavenging? and isn't he in fire station?
starting character vs "early enough" survivor with a massive downgrade hmmm

and why are we comparing non starting character?
you should be comparing Daphne to Darrel
which i also want to point out that, Leo has to basically both cook and scavenge
Darrel is anti-synergistic with Leo. do i need to say more?

don't even get me started on Barb, cuz Daphne + Barb is perfect
and i said proper stealth. take downs don't use durability on weapons much
-----------------------------------------------------------
you know what? i think we're on a different subject
i acknowledged that the Leo pair is good for beginners,
and Daphne(not Penny as main focus) pair is good for skilled players
not straight up which is better like you're doing

on top of that, you're assuming the player you're talking about to be less skilled
just so that you can make favorable argument for yourself

[GiantAnt]

Originally posted by celsius03:

i never said they're good because Penny helps you sneak well
(i understand most people say this so i understand)
however, jumping to conclusion on stuff i didn't say is uhh.. yea
i said if you use stealth, their negatives are completely negated
so all of this

Originally posted by GiantAnt:

After the first update they did where sound detection range was reduced 50% across the board, Penny's trait is a lot less useful. Pretty much any character will be sneaking 100% of the time, and stealth kills are one shot kills for any character, and you practically have to be standing on top of a background zombie to trigger it with any character stealth kill with a silent-ish weapon (tomahawk or less sound). I have never triggered a background zombie by sneaking around and looting with any character, I don't think it can actually happen.

is just a rant for nothing and you're only supporting me by saying

Originally posted by GiantAnt:

and stealth kills are one shot kills for any character

Originally posted by GiantAnt:

Given that all characters can sneak successfully, that leaves you with "what happens if ♥♥♥♥ hits the fan and you have to fight". Here Leo is unrivaled, having both increased toughness and increased melee damage for all weapons.

and for "sh*t hitting the fan" i said if you use stealth "properly"
i never engage in combat, but i can't expect everyone to play like me

however, how many 1v1 or 2v1 combat do you really engage in a single location,
with an added risk of alerting everything around you?
fighting 3v1 is pretty dumb so players should run
but with 1 or 2? maybe couple of fights? are you going down to your
last health point so that if it wasn't Leo, you would've died?

lets just be clear on things cuz i've also said
Darrel+Leo pair are beginner friendly, not useless or anything

Originally posted by GiantAnt:

On the "crafter" side, Daphne is better if Frank was not one of the first survivors you can pick up, and I hardly ever needed to craft a med-kit. BTW that is not really a synergy for Penny either as she should not get hit that much and not need medkits. Darrel on the other hand is useful because he can eat the otherwise useless dogfood, and craft cheaper melee weapons for Leo. Barb is only available a bit later in the game usually.

so the dude that has less inventory slots? why would i choose him over Daphne
if i'm also able to use Daphne on scavenging? and isn't he in fire station?
starting character vs "early enough" survivor with a massive downgrade hmmm

and why are we comparing non starting character?
you should be comparing Daphne to Darrel
which i also want to point out that, Leo has to basically both cook and scavenge
Darrel is anti-synergistic with Leo. do i need to say more?

don't even get me started on Barb, cuz Daphne + Barb is perfect
and i said proper stealth. take downs don't use durability on weapons much
-----------------------------------------------------------
you know what? i think we're on a different subject
i acknowledged that the Leo pair is good for beginners,
and Daphne(not Penny as main focus) pair is good for skilled players
not straight up which is better like you're doing

on top of that, you're assuming the player you're talking about to be less skilled
just so that you can make favorable argument for yourself

Seems like you took this a little too personally :) I am just stating some obvious facts: after the "nerf" (buff i guess) to sound range, Pennys trait is much less impactful, but she still has a bad penalty trait whereas Leos "bad" trait is just a resource question )increased hunger), and the main draw of Daphne (cooking trait) is replicated by literally the first survivor you meet, Frank (med kits you don't really need that many of).

Obviously the usefulness of a trait in a starter character needs to consider what survivors you meet, esp. early on. Frank is literally as early as it gets. If you met Barb immediately, Darrels "whittler" skill would be a whole lot less useful for example.

The game is played 100% in stealth for all scavengers until it isn't, that's not unique for Penny. The argument in favor is Penny is she "makes less noise" but as I said this hardly matters anymore, you can sneak anywhere and loot everything with everyone without alerting dormant zombies, this only matters for the range a stealth skill can be "heard" and after the changes in the first patch it hardly matters anymore.

Since the stealth is similar, it matters a lot what happens when stuff goes wrong. Then Leo can comfortably fight a couple of zombies at a time, and not abort the run, while Penny probably has to run. Also in a game with permadeath, the "safety margin" this offers you is invaluable.

Leo+Darrel is much better for new players. If "veterans" get more out of Penny+Daphne is maybe true, but also debatable when they should not be caught out that much anyway (stealth+ know the locations from prior runs) and they know where to find Frank, and Penny overall being a worse combatant than Leo when it matters.