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Finding potential recruits isn't that hard really. Sometimes Bagley will recommend someone - light green icon on the map. Usually that icon means a spawn point for this specific job is there. You can also check characters schedules using deep profiler, mark their job related entries on the map - another spawn point. You can also check characters' associates. Sometimes they have rivals. Let's say, adding one professional hitman to potentials you may find another one as his rival. So 2 spawn points right there.
Once you know a spawn point (or just googled it), it gets a lot easier. Because there is a 4 minute rule. Visit a spawn point, wait for 3 or 4 minutes nearby, visit the spawn point again, operative will be there. Here's how it works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlPzH3MvVrs
that still involves a lot of searching, coz even with a map icon there's often still many pedestrians within the area you'd have to go through (especially if you're still unfamiliar with the exact spawn point and your target isn't wearing an easily noticeable uniform).
ie : when searching for tech data or other collectibles, sometimes it's still difficult to find them, even with the icon shown on the map.
in the youtube video's case, beekeepers are easy to spot coz they wear a uniform and the youtuber seem to already know the exact location of the beekeeper spawn point.
another issue i noticed is that even using the youtuber's spawn method. the traits are still quite random. so i'd need to keep coming back and forth until RNG gods give it a good skill set.
whereas, it would be great if bagley would just tag a potential recruit, if and only if, it has the exact skills i'm looking for. so i can just play normally doing quests and whatever, until i get notified.
There are other patterns like that, for example, hackers often spawn near police precinct presumably hacking their data bases, spies can be found near government buildings, drone experts can be found in parks on grass surfaces, etc. Figuring out of these spawn patterns is also a huge part of the game.
There are hidden rules like this specific spawn point is in this specific borough, so based on real life stats of London population there is a higher chance that rich black or poor Asian people will be spawned here and there, etc.
If they got rid of RNG and assigned additional perks to specific spawn points you would get ridiculous situations like all rich black professional hitmen have the 4th light step perk, but all poor Asian hitmen are berserkers. And that would undermine the game core idea. So I'm glad they used RNG instead.
It would make the game less fun for me, it would ruin unique sense of exploration and discovery this game provides.
again, i'm trying to play the game instead of playing the META of the game.
i got no problems with RNG, what i said was i want bagley to notify me by tagging a character IF AND ONLY IF, a character spawns with the specific traits i am looking for.
game can spawn any random character with random skills. i don't care.
it's just that they're not the ones i'm looking for and therefore, would rather not waste a single second for them.
it's a shallow simulation.
if i was a hacker with the skillset of dedsec, i'd tap into a government and corporate databases, get an AI to consolidate each person's professional/academic backgrounds, give myself a list of top candidates to do a specific job.
you simply do NOT try to brute force one person at a time, instead you use your head and use the damn search function and filters. once you got a list of target candidates, you can ping their current exact location using the CtOS/Albion/etc.. surveillance systems.
Making operatives less valuable is not a good idea for the game with permadeath. Players should treat them like unique human beings, not like easily replaceable cannon fodder.
Doesn't matter. It's more than just flavor text of previous WD games. It pushed me towards exploration of the city, it's one of the main reasons why I have special relationships with London in this game.
lol. value is SUBJECTIVE. for you it's "less value" but for me, my LIMITED TIME ON EARTH ultimately has a much larger value than the silly pointless META GRIND.
not only is it a pointless grind, but it's completely COUNTER-INTUITIVE for how hackers with access to government/corporate database + highly sophisticated AI + widescale government surveillance would do.
almost everyone's connected via their visual implants. practically everything they do online and offline is being tracked.
so being able to pinpoint the exact location of every construction worker or every drone enthusiast or whatever.. on demand, allows players to actually play the game (doing actual missions), instead of playing the meta.
simple. they should have created limited population.
ie : what's the total population? what's the % of that total population that have professional or academic background for x?
they should also add a replenish rate and replenish cooldown for migrant workers moving into london.
that's for you, but not for me.
And if you value that specific combination, let's say, you think that his voice fits his appearance, you like his takedown animations, the way he holds a gun, etc... you would value this operative more, because thanks to RNG he essentially becomes irreplaceable. This makes the game significantly more dramatic with permadeath. You know that if you die you won't be able to find exactly the same operative.
Meanwhile a search engine will suck out all drama and fun from the game IMO. I would die now, who cares? A couple of search queries and I will find the same operative with exactly the same name, job, face, etc.
If you limit search queries allowing the player to search by job or perks only, instead of a game where you could organically find someone on the streets on the way to your next objective you would create a game focused on grinding search engine instead. I don't want to play search engine optimization game. I want to play a game where I could explore the city hoping to find someone valuable around the corner, even if that someone wouldn't meet all the criteria.
That's my entire point.
There are multiple construction sites on the map. Construction workers are the easiest to find.
The game has GTA like structure with a modern city and a very high density of people on the streets that exist only within a small area around the player (unless you add someone to potential recruits).
Making a limited population would be a huge undertaking. It would be really hard to store all information in memory and on disk, really hard to update it on the fly, hard to store all updates inside your savegame file, hard to explain current population state to the player through feedback, etc.
It's an unbearable task and a terrible idea in itself, would break the game very fast if the player decides to kill everyone.
exact "same face, name, etc.." lol no.
exact same job and traits, yes.. (coz your search filter would be looking for the same job and traits you applied in your search parameters) but the rest of their "personality" of what makes them "unique" remains RNG.
you can already see the same thing with construction workers (or many other professions) many of which already share practically all the same traits (ie : summon drone, nail gun, construction worker disguise, etc..), except their faces, personality, names.
we could just do a query for bagley to ping all of those construction workers, and pick randomly.. and they'd still be as "unique" as if you physically head hunted them in their local spawn points.. lol
my point is that's YOUR prerogative, NOT mine.
if i order a banana cake, i don't want to peel the bananas myself.
if you so absolutely enjoy personally peeling bananas, then go have a fun time doing that.
just don't assume and FORCE the rest of us to think, that your way is the ONLY way.
lol. no.
you don't need to generate and store every single info for a million or whatever population. you just need to have a million or whatever slots.
their identities are generated on the fly along with their personal connections,
just like the game already does now.
the only difference is how each death affects how the characters are generated.
ie : just an example. if there are 100 drone experts and 80 of them gets killed, it means that the game will only allow you to search for 20 drone experts available, and therefore only needs to RNG generate 20 drone experts.
you don't need to store a jillion info.. lol.
also, as i said before. the game could also have a "replenishment" algorithm. ie : to simulate migration of people from other areas. to fill up job vacancies. (much like what happens in the real world).
Then the same argument you're using will be used against you: it's completely COUNTER-INTUITIVE for how hackers with access to government/corporate database + highly sophisticated AI + widescale government surveillance would do..
That's not how it would work in real life, so, please, show us the whole info, the entire resume with the photo, associates and metadata. DedSec should have access to that info.
By the way, there are other construction sites related jobs. For example, you may find a machinist with uniformed access, cargo drone, berserker and shockwave strike. No nail gun, no melee weapon.
FORCE? The ONLY way? Really? We're discussing the game they stopped supporting a long time ago, the game that underperformed, so there probably won't be the next Watch Dogs game. let alone a spiritual Legion 2.0 successor in the nearest future. We're doing mental gymnastics here. I'm not forcing anything upon you. And that's not my way, that's this game way.
I'm pretty sure you didn't spend enough time thinking about the magnitude of the consequences of your own idea, and didn't even explain it to me clear enough.
You need to store those 20 drone experts somewhere, because when I repeat my search query I must find exactly the same 20 drone experts, because your game promised me limited population.
And then I'll do another search and another one. After hours of searches for different jobs I'll reach your million slot limit. So you'll have to store at least a million of NPCs in RAM with all appearances, associates, metadata, because your population is limited. That's a huge amount of data! And when I restart the game I should find the same people. That's a huge savegame file you need to sync through cloud each time.
If you still don't understand how crazy your idea is, please, tell me, what will happen if I decide to kill the last 20 drone experts? No drone experts to recruit? Or kill all Albion guards in your game? The next mission area that will require Albion guards will be empty? All red Albion areas in London will be empty, right? No need to do borough uprising missions anymore?
it just sounds like you have some kind of OCD and expect the rest of us to have the problem as you.
i don't. i just wanted less hassle when recruiting.
lol. have you NEVER used a search engine FILTER before?
sure a database could have like petabytes of friggin data. but search filter would FILTER the results to ONLY THE DATA THAT YOU SEARCH FOR.
duh...
like if i do a search for a list of every fast food chain.
i don't expect the engine to include every single menu/employee list/branch locations/etc.., for every single fast food chain. lol.
no. the search would/should produce only the list of the fast food chains. coz that's the only relevant data i'm looking for.
keywords in caps ; OTHER construction RELATED jobs. it's like saying a taxi driver is the same as an F1 racer coz they both drive.
you're trying to skirt the point that "construction workers" (NOT construction "related jobs". lol) in the game can summon a construction drone + nail gun + construction outfit + wrench as their default traits.
and the main thing that makes them "unique" is their faces/personality. which i already explained would remain RNG.
you keep saying you "enjoy" it, as if your enjoyment is sufficient enough justification for a crappy feature.
i'm free to say it's crap, coz it IS crap. (for me at least)
if you enjoy it, then feel free to enjoy it.
but your "enjoyment" of it, does ZERO for me.
even if we assume there's a million "construction workers".
if you do a search with filters, (edit : "search" in this context, isn't really doing a "search" through a 1 million entries. instead, it's basically "generating" characters based on your search filters and the "rarity" of traits and combination of those traits that you're searching for. ie : if you're searching for an extremely rare combination of traits, you'd probably get less than 1% of total population)
your search results would limit you to a page (probably with 25 or 50 results or whatever). and while you're hacking, a countdown timer ticks down trying to trace you.
you can only ping a limited amount of potential recruits, coz guess what? your team has a LIMITED ROSTER. (this is the only info that needs to be saved)
after which you'd have to wait for a cooldown to do another search. (maybe around 5 to 10 minutes?)
what that means is that, in order for a person to be able to get all 1 million construction workers, they'd need to spend 667 HOURS just nonstop searching. lol
and even if they had that much time and patience to wait, i doubt they'd be able to memorize every single detail of every single construction worker.
so NO.. game doesn't need to "save" what the player in all likelihood will NOT remember. and even if they got some fancy "photographic memory" or whatever. changes in the population over time, can easily be explained by migration, change in career, death, sickness, etc.. so the population WILL CHANGE. it's inevitable.
you don't have to "save" details for 1 million construction workers. you only need to "save" data up to the maximum capacity of your team roster
as for search results. their data is generated 25 to 50 per page, and with the 60 second countdown timer, a player can probably scan a max 60 pages.
i already explained this can be resolved easily via a REPLENISHMENT algorithm.
for some very rare jobs with very low percentage of population, yes you can run out of them if all of them gets killed and they have a slow replenishment rate. (which is a good thing, at least from my POV, coz you can diversify your roster)
as for albion soldiers, then add a much lower cooldown to their replenishment rate, this simulates them as "priority hires" by those companies and gangs, coz they got the cash to throw around for their high turnover rate.
so many of your "issues", sounds like a lack of imagination, at least that's what i want to say, but more likely it's coz i forget to explain things that i thought would be obvious or something. that's my bad.
My point still stands, your own idea can't stand your own argument. You either give the player a tool to search for specific operative (later about that) or shouldn't give a tool like that at all.
Bad analogy. In real life a taxi driver and an F! racer don't visit the same working area. Meanwhile in Legion both a construction worker and a machinist have 'Uniformed Access/Construction Sites' perk.
I do think that searching people through Bagley recommendations, deep profiler and associates is a really good idea, because it doesn't make the process trivial, because you're using unique features the game simulates, and you get the idea how the game really works in the process. That's part of the fun.
Still sounds like a game about SEO optimization, how to do a search in such a way so you wouldn't waste 10 minutes. Seriously, nothing exciting about that, not a game I would like to play. Limiting your search engine you just give the player more reasons to ask, Why should I search for people using these cumbersome filters and rules? Give me character creation tool already.
So no limited population then? Fine.
I can't remember if this specific game design principle has a name or not, but the point sounds something like that - if the player can't distinguish a system from a random factor, because of poor feedback or whatever, it's better to scrap the system.
Like you can simulate guards inventory, so each one would have a fixed number of ammo and grenades, but the result would be perceived as almost the same if just one guard would randomly yell, 'I'm out of ammo' and run to an ammo crate. Or another one would order, "Throw a grenade!". My point is...
...you won't be able to clearly explain this to the player. You won't be able to make him do meaningful decisions based on that info: I wouldn't kill that NPC with a rare perk combination, because there would be less NPCs like that in the next 24 hours.
First of all, in most cases you can't see NPCs perks before you kill them. In Legion that means that their perks combinations weren't even generated/simulated at that point. So there would be no clear connection between kills, NPCs rarity, percentage in entire population.
Second, you would have to create a huge database with entries like this number of these perks combo were killed by the player at this area inside this borough, therefore, less people with these perks would spawn in this borough nearby, etc.
Third, you would have to explain that to the player somehow. Like through a population tab in the game menu or on the map with graphs and everything where you can check stats, rates like this week number of Tidis employees decreased, Broca Tech remains understaffed. Or through TV/radio news in the game: HRs can't hire enough drone experts, expect more drone accidents above your heads. Women, check your dating apps, less men in London this month, etc...
A huge undertaking! The fact that you add 'simple' or 'easily' doesn't make it so. So IMO it's better to leave everything just random, the way it works in the game, and focus efforts on even deeper simulation of associates, their schedules and their relationships within DedSec. Because that would make the game more personal. The game isn't about statistics agency.
your "point" is like telling me to have a search engine that would insist on bombarding me with NON-RELEVANT DATA, regardless of the SEARCH FILTERS I APPLY.
my "point" is that your retort was pointless.. lol.
again, irrelevant. in the GAME, a "construction worker" traits are : summon drone, construction uniform, wrench, and nailgun.
my "analogy" is to point out that you are trying to insert construction RELATED jobs, which is NOT the same as the "construction worker" job class.
if you want more analogy, try this one : it's like you're trying to compare the "traits" of a sorcerer vs traits of a wizard, coz they both use magic. they're completely different JOB CLASSES.
but who am i ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kidding. it's obvious to me that regardless of how of many analogies i make, it just goes over your head anyways.
that's part of "your" fun, which again, does NOT apply to me.
"how to do a search in such a way so you wouldn't waste 10 minutes"
1) pick a "job"
2) pick 4 traits you're searching for.
3) pick anyone on the list (coz each of them WILL have the parameters you searched for)
4) unless you have OCD to obsess about face and personality matching (which is irrelevant, gameplay-wise anyway)
character creation tool, implies you can fully customize including the face and personality,
which this does NOT do. why are you so obsessed with faces and personality anyways? it doesn't really affect gameplay.
egads, i just explained that RARE jobs with low percentage of the population and have low priority hiring would have LOW replenishment rate.
you CAN run out of a particular job class.. at least TEMPORARILY. (which reflects real life. ie : new graduates, new immigrants, etc.. eventually filling the empty slots)
lol. the game IS already simulating the randomized spawning of people with specific jobs.
ie : if you enter into a construction site, the game only generates X amount of construction workers at a time.
the main difference between a fully randomized population vs a limited population with a replenishment rate would be fluctuation in population density in the search engine results and their spawn rate in their spawn locations.
ie : if there are 100 drone experts and 40 died, then search engine would only generate a maximum of 60 drone experts (until population is replenished).
or if there is X percent chance that a job class will spawn in a specific spawn point, then that probability is automatically scaled up/down depending on availability.
what? if a player searched for "drone experts" with X traits, trying to replace a dead recruit and the results come up as ZERO.
then what explanation do they need that isn't already blatantly obvious?
they dead. pick a different job class. try again next time.
at least with a search engine, player don't need to camp spawn points hoping that what they're looking for would actually spawn after 4 minutes, and hoping again that the character that spawns actually has the trait they're looking for.. so default setting would be like 4 minutes of wait time PER SINGULAR SPAWN...
and meanwhile, you're complaining about "wasting time" on a search engine that can give you HUNDREDS of results for potential recruits you can ping, in less than a minute..
lolwut? i can perfectly see their traits just by hovering and clicking with the middle mouse button. all their 1 to 4 traits are displayed with their name, their job, their picture, etc..
wtf are you even talking about?
again, you don't.
the player has a LIMITED ROSTER. iirc, it only contain a max of 40 people + their "associates"
game doesn't need to store personnel info more than that, coz players simply will not remember every single person from a population more than a million.
search engine will GENERATE hundreds of results (ie : 20 people per page, limited to a 60 second hacking countdown timer before detection), but since you can only ping a max of 40 people, the rest of those hundreds of data is discarded. upon search completion, and then randomly generated again when creating a new search.