Best Art Combos?

[WeskerFeetPics]

I'm not gonna lie, I don't pay toooooo much attention to the fighters (I mainly control Rena or Celine, I know I know-), but would love to know the best ability combos I should put on the ai.
So far the ones I'm pretty confident in are :
Claude - Air Slash>Meteor Palm, Sword of Life>Phase Gun
Chisato - 100,000 Volts>Flamethrower, Burning Cards>Tear Gas
Ernest - Dimensional Whip>Bed of Roses, Thousand Tails>Air Swing
Opera - Photon Prison>Gravitational Sphere, Healing Star>Refraction Beam

But for the life of me have no idea which of Dias' or Bowman's moves are best to put on them, as they seem to get lost in the fray of battle a lot. Any recommendations would be appreciated!

[Powersword]

Do combos work ? Never tried it myself. Isn’t it just using one skill after another anyway?

[Doom_Cookies]

Originally posted by UnholyBlood:

Do combos work ? Never tried it myself. Isn’t it just using one skill after another anyway?

Originally posted by This PC:

TLDR of post above me: It's faster to combo Mirror Slice twice than to put it only once in there. Really interesting breakdown however, I never really saw it like that, 99% of players won't need to go deeper than that TLDR however

This. ^

So, brief conceptual explanation. Animations are broken up into three parts:

• Precast - the "wind up" part of the animation before the damage.
  
• Cast - the damaging portion of the animation
  
• Aftercast - the part of the animation lock that occurs after all the damage is dealt, where you can't even move yet

The duration of each portion depends on the specific art. Some have long aftercasts, like Claude's Phase Gun, and some have extremely long pre-casts, like Chisato's Missile Strike.

Chaining arts together in a combo allows you to skip the first skill's aftercast. It is ideal to use skills with really long aftercasts as the first skill so you can skip it (so long as their damage isn't too low), but using almost any art will result in slightly more damage. Off the top of my head, Claude's Sword of Life is the only exception, given it has zero aftercast.

---

For reference, the vast majority of arts have a total animation time of 1.5s, a handful are 2.0s, and most have a roughly even cast duration, differing only by longer/shorter precast/aftercast. The basic attack chain also takes 1.5s to execute and has a brief aftercast which is actually skipped by using an art afterward (that's why you can combo 3 attacks into an art so smoothly).

A few notable exceptions are:

• Chisato's Missile Strike has an 8s animation time, if I remember correctly, and a massive pre-cast of 7s.
  
• Mirror Blade (and I assume similar arts) have a total cast time of around 4-5s (can't remember exactly).
  
• Giant beam attacks such as Precis's Robbie's Superbeam have a 3-4s animation time (can't remember exactly) and a long precast.

[This PC]

TLDR of post above me: It's faster to combo Mirror Slice twice than to put it only once in there. Really interesting breakdown however, I never really saw it like that, 99% of players won't need to go deeper than that TLDR however.

@OP: You probably should look to just maximize DPS instead of trying to do clever combos. Like, just putting meteor palm twice on the same button on claude and calling it a day. Only character I really combo with is opera, and hum..
Her setup is like Gravitational shell > Hyperlauncher.
GS pulls enemies in, and then hyperlauncher slams them.

Another character I see use in actually comboing is chisato, 100k volts is pretty bad at range, but it can be monstrous from up close. Setting up a skill that forces her to be up close will then ensure that her 100k volts is pulled in melee range.

There's also another layer to this, for example, Bowman's tornado fist makes him reposition in melee range on the same latitude as an enemy, but it shoots a tornado that travels across the field. It's kinda stupid that he repositions, lol, but if you set it as second skill, it skips the windup, and bowman doesn't reposition, making it work essentially like air slash at range. You can do something like Self Medication > Tornado Fist, for example. There's other skills that have this behavior too, like Tracking Plasma on Opera. Presumably, you could do Healing Star > Tracking plasma, and she wouldn't reposition for plasma. I tested only on Bowman, but I would assume they all work essentially like that.
Disclaimer edit: That setup is ♥♥♥♥ on bowman, also wouldn't recommend that setup on opera, it's just to demonstrate the behavior of chaining skill. ;p

In like, a majority of cases however, I'd recommend just putting your strongest skill twice. My Dias just has airslash twice, my ernest just has bed of roses/sonic whip twice (depends how quirky I feel), so on and so forth.

[valium]

Essentially, anything you plan on spamming back-to-back-to-back, you might as well double up on the chain, as it will save you a bit on animation time.

[Powersword]

Interesting I guess the mp cost of some skills always put me of trying that. But if it reduces the animation length then it’s definitely worth trying.. not sure if it’s true or not but I’m pretty sure the moves leveled up in the original through repeated use but looks like in this version you just buy the upgrade

[di eshor ribly]

Originally posted by UnholyBlood:

Interesting I guess the mp cost of some skills always put me of trying that.

That's why you equip Faerie Rings, stack some stamina (after-battle recovery), and cook food. You also regain some MP every time you pull off a perfect counter.

[Powersword]

I have all that stuff but prefer damage/defense counters . Talismans / double damage etc . Biggest problem I’ve ever had with enemies is normally either a big elemental hit or a status problem. Mainly when doing survival in fun land etc

[di eshor ribly]

Meh, I tend to use equipment like duelling suits/mithril shields or other combos to defend from status effects. If a character has a weapon with the 50% MP use (Claude, Rena, Leon, Celine that I can think of) then they don't need faerie rings, and can use something like a colorless scarf + ring of might combo. That's usually my Claude set up for the Fun City arena.

Late game:
Godslayer (50% mp)
duelling suit (status defense)
mithril shield (status defense)
star greaves
mithril helmet
colorless scarf (elemental resist)
ring of might (double attack, elemental weakness*)
*removed by scarf

You can still be poisoned and silenced, but no more paralysis/petrification and your elemental defenses are covered. Also watch out for being eaten. This set up lets you abuse combo link spamming and pretty much stay at full MP unless you get mana drained. You'll get tired of hearing "Victory! Victory! Victory!" as Claude Sword of Life's his way to... well.... "Victory!"

[Powersword]

I’m using an elemental sword with hp drain at the moment but a mp drain would be nice if there is one. Not interested in the bloody armour stuff

[Doom_Cookies]

Edit: I've done a little more testing, counting frames and ♥♥♥♥, and made a few edits to correct mistakes I made here.

I spent a good ten hours the other day testing all the arts for the characters I had and comparing damage-per-second (DPS) and how they work in various combos. That's how I got the information in my above post, by giving it a bit of a deep dive. I considered recording everything and making a guide but decided I wasn't in the mood, so I don't have the numbers anymore, but I recall my conclusions.

In my playthrough, for fighters, I had: Claude, Opera, Precis, Ernest, Welch, Chisato

I'm going to write a lot of detail for Claude, so you can see how I make decisions and the sort of logic I used in them, but then I'll only make brief notes for everyone else.

I'll add an asterisk (*) next to the combos I used at the end of the game.

Claude

1: Meteor Palm -> Rock Explosion*

Meteor Palm is Claude's highest reliable damage Art by far. Theoretically, chaining it back to back would be the best damage, but that has a flaw in practice - each of its hits slightly pushes back the target. If you chain it together to itself, the second Meteor Palm will push the enemy out of its own range and miss a chunk of its attacks. In contrast, Short-Rock Explosion's range is higher and will hit all its hits, causing its damage to pull ahead. As an extra benefit, enemies sure love to wander up behind Claude during his Meteor Palm animation, and Rock Explosion, being a 360 degrees AoE, will usually interrupt their back attack in time.

Occasionally, an enemy will be pushed into Long range by the time you go to use Rock Explosion, which is unfortunate for its damage as Long-Rock Explosion is nowhere near as good. But it's not really common enough to be a huge deal. Edit: Further testing shows that Long-Rock Explosion is actually slightly more DPS against a single target due to shorter animation time. Still leaves your back wide open, though.

Sword Bomber is stronger than Meteor Palm if you can get it to hit all hits. On small targets, you're likely to miss all of them, but massive targets will take a lot of the hits most of the time.

2: Phase Gun -> Phase Gun*

Phase Gun does roughly half the damage of Meteor Palm in the same span of time. If you can hit 2+ targets with it, it's preferable over Meteor Palm and may do more damage. Its downside is actually its aftercast, which is a tad long, so chaining it to itself allows you to skip one of the aftercasts.

You need to time the button presses, however, as you can actually cancel out of the first Phase Gun's damage animation and lose its third hit, lowering the damage by quite a lot.

Some notes on his other arts.

• Air Slash is hardly worth using once you get any other art, unless you really need something to spam from afar and haven't gotten Phase Gun yet.
  
  
• Helmet Break has a quick animation when used from close range, and is a great gap closer when used from long range. Does pitiful damage. Its break damage is absolutely incredible in the early game, but by the time you hit the midgame it ends up falling behind other sources of break. It's still Claude's best Break ability, though.
  
  
• Sword of Life has no aftercast whatsoever - you can move and act at the exact moment the last hit is made. This makes it good as a follow-up for an art that does have an aftercast, if you just want to use it to heal. Most arts will have the primary target out of range of its damage, however. In theory you could use this to lead into another chain of attacks without a pause? Maybe? Never tried to use it that way.
  
  
• Knuckle Burst does greater break damage than Helmet Break, but its second hit comes slowly enough that enemies will frequently just move out of the way. Just spam Helmet Break.
  
  
• Double Slash is far weaker than Meteor Palm and barely stronger slightly weaker than a basic attack chain. Better off ending your combo early to get in another Meteor Palm sooner. No reason to use it.
  
  
• Dragon Roar is weak. Its damage is okay, but it has a longer than average animation time, so its DPS is less than a third of Meteor Palm. But it does hit in an AoE. You'd need at least 4 enemies taking every single hit to just barely do more damage. Although it's "Balanced", its Break damage is only equal to Helmet Break with a far longer animation time, and only if every hit connects. Not worth using, even if it's fun.
  
  
• Sword Bomber almost always misses small targets, but is technically the highest damage art for Claude against large targets.
  
  
• Mirror Blade does less slightly more DPS than the basic attack combo, with only a short yet wide forward AoE to try to make it worthwhile over better options. It's bad. I have noticed that it seems to lock enemies in their hitstun while you use it, though, so it might be useful as a form of crowd control? Not sure if that works on bosses, however.

Opera

She has a lot of viable combos.

1: Tracking Plasma -> Tracking Plasma

Great single target damage. Absolutely cannot hit more than one target, though.

2: Refraction Beam -> Refraction Beam

Strongest single target combo for earlygame if we consider splash damage to nearby enemies. Still good lategame.

3: Gravitational Sphere -> Gravitational Sphere

Massive break damage and control in an AoE.

4: Healing Star -> Healing Star

Full HP recovery to party.

5: Gravitational Sphere -> Healing Star*

The hitstun and pull effect from Gravitational Sphere buys time for the precast of Healing Star to finish, so it actually goes off. The former also does great break damage in an AoE.

6: Gravitational Sphere -> Hyperlauncher

Round 'em up and blast 'em! Good mix of break damage and damage. Best when used in large enemy groups.

7: Electric Shockwave -> Hyperlauncher*

Electric Shockwave's damage is pretty good, and has a similar AoE to Hyperlauncher. Its hitstun helps buy time to get through Hyperlauncher's precast for massive damage.

The rest of her arts are very blah.

Precis

Note: I didn't take Ashton and therefor did not have Super Holograph.

1: Forcefield -> Forcefield

Incredible damage in an AoE on any target from any range. Decent break damage, too. Can just sit there and spam it from safety.

2: Forcefield -> Robbie's Superbeam*

Highest damage combo, but with some risk. Forcefield helps buy time to complete Robbie's Superbeam's precast. Can be annoying to play manually, because Forcefield won't reposition you and you may shoot Robbie's Superbeam at nothing.

3: Frankenrobbie -> Frankenrobbie*

Massive break damage and actually good damage as well. Still more damage than most of her other arts, even the HP Damage ones.

• Rocket Punch < Robbie Tossin' < Any Later Art.
  
  
• Parabola Beam has a long precast that makes it unreliable. Neither its damage nor break are anything worthwhile, and it's outclassed by Hammer Slammer. Robbie Tossin' tends to work better until then.
  
  
• Hammer Slammer is outclassed by everything that has a higher MP cost than it does.
  
  
• Hole-y Mole-y! is literally worthless.
  
  
• Jump 'n Thump is a slower version of Claude's Helmetbreak with a chance to stun.

Ernest

1: Spiral Lash -> Dimensional Whip

Very good melee AoE combo for the early to mid game. Rounds them up then stabs them in the air. Very satisfying to watch.

2: Thousand Tails -> Thousand Tails*

One of the strongest break damage arts in the game. Still does okay damage, too.

3: Bed of Roses -> Bed of Roses

High damage AoE to any target from anywhere on the field. Kind of like Precis' Forcefield.

4: Sonic Whip -> Bed of Roses*

Massive damage from Sonic Whip while canceling its aftercast into Bed of Roses for even more damage around the primary target. Useable from any range, and Bed of Roses will switch targets if the current one dies in the middle of its hits (which is often).

The rest of his arts are blah. Maybe Sandstorm has some use, but I never found any if it did.

Welch

1: Slappity Slap -> Slappity Slap*

Highest damage art in the game by a huge amount, roughly twice that of Claude's Meteor Palm with an even shorter cast animation (same total animation time, though).

2: Rapid Flick -> Rapid Flick

One of the strongest break damage arts in the game. Basically the break version of Slappity Slap, but feels is slightly slower.

3: Mithril Fist -> Mithril Fist

Requires Precis to learn. The equivalent of a caster using their strongest field-wide spell. Even has a precast roughly equal to a cast time. Frequently locks an enemy into hitstun for a full second. Great damage, great CC.

• Flick has decent break damage until Rapid Flick outclasses it.

Literally every other art she has is 100% worthless.

Chisato

1: Burning Cards -> Burning Cards*

Amazing break damage if used at point-blank range. Like a break damage shotgun to the face. Still good break damage if only 2-3 cards hit the primary target.

2: 100,000 Volts -> 100,000 Volts*

The HP damage version of Burning Cards. Massive damage at point-blank range, and good AoE spread further out for good splash damage.

• Roaring Cartwheel is ironically her highest DPS martial arts art. And it's not even good.
  
  
• Rising Dragon is weaker than Roaring Cartwheel.
  
  
• Gale Somersault is outclassed by Burning Cards.
  
  
• Flamethrower has too high a precast to be reliable. Its damage is okay, but nothing special.
  
  
• Tear Gas does a lot of break damage while still having quite good DPS, but its precast makes it very frequently interrupted and using it too close to an enemy causes it to miss entirely.
  
  
• Missile Strike has something like an 8s animation time, roughly 7s of that is precast. Although it's unlikely to be interrupted since it gives you invulnerability during most of its precast, it's too unwieldy for serious use and extremely often has enemies just walk out of the way.

[Schmalols]

Originally posted by Doom_Cookies:

I spent a good ten hours the other day testing all the arts for the characters I had and comparing damage-per-second (DPS) and how they work in various combos. That's how I got the information in my above post, by giving it a bit of a deep dive. I considered recording everything and making a guide but decided I wasn't in the mood, so I don't have the numbers anymore, but I recall my conclusions.[/list]

you should make a faq out of your findings, so it does not get buried!

[Powersword]

Near to the final boss and with the light speed ring most battles boss are max 60 seconds.. not even needed to use special moves much at all.. the multi hit thing is very OP.. just got the aeterna + sword from an upgrade and its doing ridiculous damage. The mirror slash combo is nice but the basic hits are just too fast now

[Second Duke Revier]

Originally posted by Doom_Cookies:

I spent a good ten hours the other day testing all the arts for the characters...

Wow, this is some great info. Highly suggest making a guide out of this.

[Doom_Cookies]

Originally posted by UnholyBlood:

Near to the final boss and with the light speed ring most battles boss are max 60 seconds.. not even needed to use special moves much at all.. the multi hit thing is very OP.. just got the aeterna + sword from an upgrade and its doing ridiculous damage. The mirror slash combo is nice but the basic hits are just too fast now

Ring of Lightspeed and Aeterna or that one accessory that causes you to shoot out stars when you attack just like Aeterna does is amazing. In prior versions of the game, it was the best way to build Claude, since hit count was king as damage was capped at 9999 per hit, and because you had a massive chance to daze anything you were attacking permanently until it died. That was even the easiest way to kill most of the postgame superbosses.

Originally posted by Schmalols:

you should make a faq out of your findings, so it does not get buried!

Originally posted by Second Duke of Aeria Revier:

Wow, this is some great info. Highly suggest making a guide out of this.

I want to, and I might. I just have so many games I want to play right now that I'm not sure I'll have the attention span for it. I'd need to time everything again so I can get reasonably accurate data.

[valium]

Ashton was rated highly in the PS1 version because he was very marginally better at the star spraying, but his KMs were flaming hot garbage and Claude had Ripper Blast for massive AOE damage and to help lockdown enemies on Universe mode so he could close the distance for star spraying. Not a fan of Ashton in any regard.