Battle Points System?

[Augoeides]

So, this was always my favorite game of all time, and I've been deliberately ignoring the demo, so I can play the game in full on release. However, I watched a random video reviewing the game, and while I liked most of what I saw, apparently they changed Killer Move and Spell progression to be tied to Battle Points, which are rewarded after fights are over?

Do Killer Moves and Spells still progress by using them, with the Battle Points upgrading the moves in addition to this? Or did they literally just gate the progression of this stuff to BP? Because if so, that sounds like garbage. The fun of this game was earning new moves and making them badass right away, not having them gated by some secondary thing.

[Cyflan]

Making them badass right away?
The new system is better for that.

Now you can just spend BP you've earned during fights to immediately upgrade the moves you like.

While previously you had to spam the move hundreds of times to get them to full power.

I don't know if the new system is better, but it's sure less time consuming.

[AceMan#1]

I think they are making it too easy though lol, less like an rpg and more like a lazy rpg hahaha!

[AceMan#1]

I mean it tops Ni nu kuni in terms of how great the combat is plus it tells you where to go just like ni no kuni did. I might be able to play this game with my eyes closed.

[Augoeides]

I understand that it's a time saver, but I did enjoy that leveling the moves felt like I was actually accomplishing something.

Although, now that I think about it, Chisato's Flamethrower was absolutely crazy good... until her last 2 killer Move enhancements for it, then it became garbage. I guess with this new system, I can avoid that evolution, since it would be tied to BP? That's something to look forward to, I guess.

One other thing I forgot to ask, how about the "Break System"? It seems like it makes the fights too easy, since in theory, you could mow down the Break Meter in seconds with stuff like Mirror Slice and Sword Dance in the late game (assuming the Meter doesn't get obnoxiously big). This feature already exists in SO2 though, through the Guts system. You could stun enemies by basically triggering a critical with Guts. Did the Break System replace Guts, or are both a thing now?

[Lurker]

Originally posted by Augoeides:

I understand that it's a time saver, but I did enjoy that leveling the moves felt like I was actually accomplishing something.

Although, now that I think about it, Chisato's Flamethrower was absolutely crazy good... until her last 2 killer Move enhancements for it, then it became garbage. I guess with this new system, I can avoid that evolution, since it would be tied to BP? That's something to look forward to, I guess.

One other thing I forgot to ask, how about the "Break System"? It seems like it makes the fights too easy, since in theory, you could mow down the Break Meter in seconds with stuff like Mirror Slice and Sword Dance in the late game (assuming the Meter doesn't get obnoxiously big). This feature already exists in SO2 though, through the Guts system. You could stun enemies by basically triggering a critical with Guts. Did the Break System replace Guts, or are both a thing now?

Exactly this.
Firstly, you can decide whether or not to level up certain KMs, which in some cases is an absolute blessing. This alone makes the new system way better than the old one.

Furthermore, if you guys just want the "feeling" of leveling up your KMs you can still do that, too. Just, dear god, grind as usual and at some point you simply invest some BPs to level up your desired KM once and continue grinding.

And we don't know how the Break-Meter will turn out, really. Only thing I've noticed is that some enemies have a more duarable shield than others so I can see that being an actual challenge for later enemies.
Otherwise, yes, it's very similiar to the Guts/Stun-system which definitely was abuseable before, so wouldn't be surprised if there are items that increase Break-damage and fill a similiar role.

[Azaeal]

I much prefer the BP system over the proficiency system, spamming moves in the Survival Arena just to get them to their most powerful was... a bit slow at times, and with the BP I can invest in skills I want, and feel free to invest in new ones to try them out without first having to use them 500 times.

As for Guts, in my experience when guts procs it just does a chunk of damage to the shields, so no actual stunlock with it anymore. Will make certain end game fights a bit more strategic. There are 3 types of moves, HP Focused, which do most of their damage to HP, Balanced (which all spells are) which do half and half to HP and Shields, and Guard Focused, doing most of their damage to shields. We haven't seen what moves are guard focused, so they might influence what moves we actually want to use and maybe change out before boss fights, rather than just using the same 2 moves and never needing to swap.

[Shopkeeperrpg]

I just wish we could also have the choice for originals SO2 battle voices. I liked the original PS1 voices.

[Augoeides]

Originally posted by shopkeeperrpg:

I just wish we could also have the choice for originals SO2 battle voices. I liked the original PS1 voices.

Yeah, I'm not keen on that either. The original English VA sounded exactly how I imagined he would be, a grisled cocky warrior. Maybe I'll get used to the new stuff, though. Or, maybe someone will come along and mod the old voices back in.

[dog_force21]

Originally posted by Cyflan:

Making them badass right away?
The new system is better for that.

Now you can just spend BP you've earned during fights to immediately upgrade the moves you like.

While previously you had to spam the move hundreds of times to get them to full power.

I don't know if the new system is better, but it's sure less time consuming.

Sounds more lame stream at least when spamming moves it gave the feeling of actual progression. Besides the highest proficiency was only 999 and I don't think you even needed to hit that high to max it out. Spamming a move about 5 times per battle meant you only had to fight about 100 battles for a move to be good.

[Cyflan]

Originally posted by dog_force21:

Originally posted by Cyflan:

Making them badass right away?
The new system is better for that.

Now you can just spend BP you've earned during fights to immediately upgrade the moves you like.

While previously you had to spam the move hundreds of times to get them to full power.

I don't know if the new system is better, but it's sure less time consuming.

Sounds more lame stream at least when spamming moves it gave the feeling of actual progression. Besides the highest proficiency was only 999 and I don't think you even needed to hit that high to max it out. Spamming a move about 5 times per battle meant you only had to fight about 100 battles for a move to be good.

Opera's Healing Star needed 999 uses to reach max power.
And that is still just spamming the move with no thought.

Can you really call that fun?

[Joerpg84]

I don’t have patience or time to spam moves over and over anymore. The BP system is a blessing. I mean, you can still just spam them and invest BP from levels as if you did it 999 times but…this also means you can choose not to level up some moves as they become less effective or not as good. Chisato’s flamethrower for example.

[dog_force21]

Originally posted by Joerpg84:

I don’t have patience or time to spam moves over and over anymore. The BP system is a blessing. I mean, you can still just spam them and invest BP from levels as if you did it 999 times but…this also means you can choose not to level up some moves as they become less effective or not as good. Chisato’s flamethrower for example.

Till the BP required is a extremely large amount and it turns out it would be quicker to just spam the moves that you do use.

[Cyflan]

Originally posted by dog_force21:

Originally posted by Joerpg84:

I don’t have patience or time to spam moves over and over anymore. The BP system is a blessing. I mean, you can still just spam them and invest BP from levels as if you did it 999 times but…this also means you can choose not to level up some moves as they become less effective or not as good. Chisato’s flamethrower for example.

Till the BP required is a extremely large amount and it turns out it would be quicker to just spam the moves that you do use.

I doubt the prices will ever be that high.

[Augoeides]

I think Chisato's Flamethrower (and I think one other move of her's) is the only KillerMove/Spell in the game that gets worse when it advances. I don't remember anything else getting "worse" with progression.

Still, I really liked Chisato. She was top tier and fun to play, until her moves got worse, for some dumb reason.

[Augoeides]

I hope they made magic better, too.

A lot of the spells became garbage, due to multi-hit killer moves overtaking them, and the damage cap being 9,999. That, and from what I remember, most spells didn't get visually more interesting. Like, I always HATE playing Claude, because that means that I HAVE to have Leon in my party. And while his magic is interesting, it gets outdated fast.

The same thing happens with with that other Nedian guy you get at the end of the game. It's cool to have another healer in the party... but he didn't heal well, attack well, or have good offensive spells. He was effectively dead weight, and only worth picking if you had the party slot open. Which is a shame, cause I remember his voicelines and personality being cool, but he was basically worthless.