Chance to hit calculation is way off

[Behemoth]

So I just started my first game of Xenonauts, and despite the nostalgic warmness I get from playing it I quit right during the first mission. The percentage calculations for hits and miss are a complete clusterf... - I give you an example:

An alien is behind some rock alright, so that means cover you'd say - but NOT when my soldier is approaching from the alien's flank. Yet still, I only get a 2% chance to hit (this is from TWO tiles away) ... are you kidding me? I realize this is 2D only but come on, you can't be telling me this is intended. Well if it is I just wasted 16,99 tbh...

Edit: LOL - aliens hit marginably better - why would X-Co (... err the agency in Xenonauts that is NOTHING like X-Com I mean ^^) hire these inept sorry excuses for soldiers in the first place? I just spent TEN turns trying to kill that alien behind the tiny rock, which apparently to the game is like the alien is using an elaborate WW1 trench system, and they just kept on missing it - all in the while I lost two soldiers to what were more or less lucky shots by the alien. Tedium doesn't begin to tell what this feels like and I stopped playing. You guys have a LONG way to go with this game, because while it sort of feels like the first game, it plays nothing like it.

Despite its shortcomings, for now I will stick with either the reimagining of XCom by Firaxis or, if push comes to shove, play XCom Apocalypse or Jagged Alliance 2, both of which are far, far better old school turn based games than this one is shaping up to be...

[Pheace]

If you still only had 2% then you weren't flanking unless his aim is seriously bad. You can see on the targeting line if something's blocking your way. And yes, Aliens in cover are difficult to kill, stun grenades are nice as well as explosives. Either that or flank them.

[Gorlom[Swe]]

Harmor are you using rickghtclick to increase the aimlevel? (the bit on the hud is TU reserve and does not change how good your guys aim is)
Which weapon were you using on the flanking? Sniper rifles and machineguns counts as heavy and suffer a penalty if they moved in the turn before trying to shoot.

But the aiming is still being balanced as far as I know. I think you can mod it yourself to try different values? or is that just the range of the weapons? I forget.

[Behemoth]

Yeah I remember the right click - the combat so far (I realize its a beta) simply isn't nowhere near as good as the original XCom games were, or games like Jagged Alliance for example. It just isn't and has a LONG way to go - I will say that I ofc realize this is beta and all, but still, if I notice something that irks me I'll point it out. And I think I'm entitled to it because this isn't a free but paid-for beta...

[Gorlom[Swe]]

Originally posted by Harmor:

I will say that I ofc realize this is beta and all, but still, if I notice something that irks me I'll point it out. And I think I'm entitled to it because this isn't a free but paid-for beta...

Yes, ofcourse. We are just trying to help understanding or finding out what happened.
And provide you with means to change it :D

[Pheace]

Originally posted by Harmor:

Yeah I remember the right click - the combat so far (I realize its a beta) simply isn't nowhere near as good as the original XCom games were, or games like Jagged Alliance for example. It just isn't and has a LONG way to go - I will say that I ofc realize this is beta and all, but still, if I notice something that irks me I'll point it out. And I think I'm entitled to it because this isn't a free but paid-for beta...

Of course you are, but at the moment all we know is a rock was in your way and so the game is nowhere near as good as the old X-com...

What exactly do you consider worse? The cover percentages might need improving but since you feel it is a LONG way to go and said so repeatedly, that can't be all of it can it? It seems incredibly similar to old X-com (safe for the movement penalty and suppression mechanic) to me at this point so what exactly is off to you?

[Behemoth]

Well I think I may have been to harsh and indeed, some of what I complained about wasn't features but bugs instead. Just started a new game and this time it wasn't around the northpole (where I had the aforementioned cover issues twice with the rocks on that map) but on some farmland map, where the aliens and soldiers alike were incredibly bad shots once again, but this time the angles of approach seemed to be calculated properly when it comes to hit percentage. This time the cover also worked the way it should, with flanking increasing the chance to hit dramatically.

And how do you describe something that 'feels' wrong, or flawed? It's tough ... Last old school game of XCom I played was Apocalypse, and everything felt about right with combat there - not so much here, but much better than in my first try.

Generally though, I'd like if both aliens and soldiers weren't so ... BAD ... at shooting right off the bat. It's just awkward to see supposedly trained soldiers and alien invaders alike miss shots from a rather close distance time and again. I realize it would make for shorter combat overall, and would drastically increase the risk of losing soldiers, but as it is (and in order to finally finish the mission, damn it) I decided to go gun-ho and the alien once again obligingly kept missing until it finally died.

[Shug]

I agree. Aiming is hilariously bad. The SNIPER RIFLE has hilariously bad hit% from reasonable distances, even with right click aiming. The shotgun seems to have 2% from any distance. It's early access though so it'll obviously all be fixed but there's no point in playing right now other than to bug test. Though that is the point but Early Access is awfully planned out so folks are playing games expecting finished products.

[Imperialus]

Originally posted by Cocky:

I agree. Aiming is hilariously bad. The SNIPER RIFLE has hilariously bad hit% from reasonable distances, even with right click aiming.

Is your sniper moving, then shooting? Is he kneeling? An interesting thing is that the sniper rifle counts as a 'heavy' weapon so the soldier using it takes a pretty nasty accuracy penalty if he moves and shoots in the same turn. I've found that if I set my snipers up with nice clear fields of fire so they don't have to move around much they can be pretty damn accurate.

[Shug]

Nah considering you need almost all of your TUs to make a shot with even the slightest chance of hitting the target usually all of my shooting takes place on a fresh turn without movement, while knelt

[Behemoth]

Originally posted by Cocky:

Nah considering you need almost all of your TUs to make a shot with even the slightest chance of hitting the target usually all of my shooting takes place on a fresh turn without movement, while knelt

Same for me...

[elfanman]

I've played 4 ground mission so far, and I think that the shooting accuracy is similar to that of xcom94 (which I played last summer). I think the key difference is that the accuracy % in Xenonauts better represents the likelihood that you'll hit the target. Xcom94 had constant percentages given a soldier's accuracy stat regardless of how far the target was. Here, the % changes depending on distance.

I don't think this is the issue you're running into at 2 tiles away from target, but this is in reply to your comment that the game doesn't feel quite right. I haven't run into the same problem. In situations where my flanking soldier was at 45 to 90 degrees (relative to 0 degrees when directly facing the target), I've managed to hit targets at medium range with a shotgun at ~15% (snap) and medium-long range with a sniper at ~70% (aimed). What you encountered sounds like an unfortunate bug.

As for TUs needed to make an accurate shot, I think this is just one way to portray the time required for a trained soldier to take a shot. I think of a snap shot like 007 shooting his Walther from the hip, and given these soldiers are not 007, they'll miss a lot. I haven't leveled up my soldiers that much, but I imagine that you'll get soldiers with ridiculous aim in the late-game just like you did in Xcom94.

I'm sure you know this already, but you can't count on any one soldier to hit a single target. I try to group 2-3 guy so that they can shoot at the same area. It forces you to play a slower, more calculated game, but I personally find that rewarding -- read: lower risk of dead xenonauts.

[light_gemini]

You may probably dont know, but the current version of the game have all units and weapons stats flattened and similar. Its like this to start balancing the game, and stats will start to flesh out and be tweaked on next versions.
The other versions before this one had very diferent stats, were sniper rifle, machine gun etc were more accurate. You could get a 96% chance on an alien on the clear with a rookie firing a sniper rifle and weapons in general performed better, both for you and the aliens.

Dont be so quick in judge skills and combat right now because its going to be balanced /changed a lot. Even armour piercing is taken out right now waiting to be balanced again, things like having rifle shots bouncing out of androns dealing almost no damage and such will come back.

[verylifelike]

Originally posted by Harmor:

So I just started my first game of Xenonauts, and despite the nostalgic warmness I get from playing it I quit right during the first mission. The percentage calculations for hits and miss are a complete clusterf... - I give you an example:

An alien is behind some rock alright, so that means cover you'd say - but NOT when my soldier is approaching from the alien's flank. Yet still, I only get a 2% chance to hit (this is from TWO tiles away) ... are you kidding me? I realize this is 2D only but come on, you can't be telling me this is intended. Well if it is I just wasted 16,99 tbh...

Edit: LOL - aliens hit marginably better - why would X-Co (... err the agency in Xenonauts that is NOTHING like X-Com I mean ^^) hire these inept sorry excuses for soldiers in the first place? I just spent TEN turns trying to kill that alien behind the tiny rock, which apparently to the game is like the alien is using an elaborate WW1 trench system, and they just kept on missing it - all in the while I lost two soldiers to what were more or less lucky shots by the alien. Tedium doesn't begin to tell what this feels like and I stopped playing. You guys have a LONG way to go with this game, because while it sort of feels like the first game, it plays nothing like it.

Despite its shortcomings, for now I will stick with either the reimagining of XCom by Firaxis or, if push comes to shove, play XCom Apocalypse or Jagged Alliance 2, both of which are far, far better old school turn based games than this one is shaping up to be...

The rock is a -50% hit modifier. The alien crouching is another -20% hit modifier. That's why your hit percentage is so low. Have a heavy weapons person (or some riflemen) autofire at the alien until it's suppressed, then start moving some soldiers around until they no longer have to shoot through cover to hit the alien.

Or! Use frag grenades and rockets to blow up the alien's cover. But that is a little less reliable and you yourself might need that cover later in the mission.

Hope that helps.

[Articulate Llama]

It could be worse it could a complete non logical mess like the Xcom enemy unkown hit system.

[Communist Batman]

I'm still confused. Ive hit 2 shots in a row with a 1% chance. It seems to happen often as well that no matter how low my LMG fire is, I'll hit the alien once (I realize the chance of hits goes up based on firing multiple rounds but if Im at 2% chance to hit and I land 1-2 shots consistently, that seems fishy). Can someone please explain? I use aimed shots and nades whenever I can as well but sometimes just a couple terribad shots win me a fight.