Could someone make a mod to fix grenades?

[Lesurous]

Just tired of my soldiers throwing grenades at their feet, or throwing in the opposite direction.

Would also ask for guns to be 100% accurate when face to face, but I feel like people would complain (has had soldiers miss 2/3 shots pointblank)

[The Pollie]

Honestly, one of the few things about this game I truly hate. Easily one of my biggest hurdles with breaching UFOs is the utter hit&miss inconsistency with trying to flashbang the cockpits of early scouts. If it works, baller. If not? Well, I love I just left half my squad suppressed and out of position for Sebillians to rush out and mulch.

I generally avoid throwing grenades entirely unless it's smoke. At least then it's not that big of a deal if it falls short a few tiles.

[Vivikus]

Yeah I mean, mishaps happen in real life, but a trained soldier rarely will throw a grenade at his feet, let alone do it half the time.

Missing hte exact mark I get, or bouncing off of a tree that the grenade is being thrown past, but I would say a good 1/4 of my throws end up smack at the soldier's feet. Like dafuq?

As far as point blank shots, they should not be 100% accurate. Point blank shots are actually very unsettling (USN VBSS Veteran, USS Phil Sea 2003-2006). That's why we carry sharp things and pokey things. Knives would be a great addition to the vanilla game.

[Lesurous]

Originally posted by Vivikus:

Yeah I mean, mishaps happen in real life, but a trained soldier rarely will throw a grenade at his feet, let alone do it half the time.

Missing hte exact mark I get, or bouncing off of a tree that the grenade is being thrown past, but I would say a good 1/4 of my throws end up smack at the soldier's feet. Like dafuq?

As far as point blank shots, they should not be 100% accurate. Point blank shots are actually very unsettling (USN VBSS Veteran, USS Phil Sea 2003-2006). That's why we carry sharp things and pokey things. Knives would be a great addition to the vanilla game.

I mean, yeah, point blank heat of the moment, you're not gonna be the most stable and accurate person. But, with a shotgun, you should be good if you aim in their general direction.

[Aino]

Originally posted by Lesurous:

Originally posted by Vivikus:

Yeah I mean, mishaps happen in real life, but a trained soldier rarely will throw a grenade at his feet, let alone do it half the time.

Missing hte exact mark I get, or bouncing off of a tree that the grenade is being thrown past, but I would say a good 1/4 of my throws end up smack at the soldier's feet. Like dafuq?

As far as point blank shots, they should not be 100% accurate. Point blank shots are actually very unsettling (USN VBSS Veteran, USS Phil Sea 2003-2006). That's why we carry sharp things and pokey things. Knives would be a great addition to the vanilla game.

I mean, yeah, point blank heat of the moment, you're not gonna be the most stable and accurate person. But, with a shotgun, you should be good if you aim in their general direction.

The problem is even though the game doesn't show it, the closer someone is to you, sure they are a bigger target, but they also move faster in relation to how much you need to adjust position to stay poited at them.

So think missing point blank as them dodging. Having a shotgun doesn't magically make the barrel cover 360 degrees around it either. It is fine as is.

[The Pollie]

Honestly, I feel it happens more often than it should. It happens often enough I'm deliberately avoiding use of grenades solely because it's not reliable enough to waste TU to deploy one. Even if you're pre-equipped a grenade the turn prior, you either have a very high TU, high rank soldier, or you have someone who isn't going to be running away from whatever bad situation their floppy throw dropped them into.

[Shahadem]

Originally posted by Pronotum the Unforgiven:

Originally posted by Lesurous:

I mean, yeah, point blank heat of the moment, you're not gonna be the most stable and accurate person. But, with a shotgun, you should be good if you aim in their general direction.

The problem is even though the game doesn't show it, the closer someone is to you, sure they are a bigger target, but they also move faster in relation to how much you need to adjust position to stay poited at them.

So think missing point blank as them dodging. Having a shotgun doesn't magically make the barrel cover 360 degrees around it either. It is fine as is.

On the other hand you can't exactly dodge a bullet, you aren't Neo.

https://youtu.be/WhxbYTMNMxo

[Aino]

Originally posted by Shahadem:

Originally posted by Pronotum the Unforgiven:

The problem is even though the game doesn't show it, the closer someone is to you, sure they are a bigger target, but they also move faster in relation to how much you need to adjust position to stay poited at them.

So think missing point blank as them dodging. Having a shotgun doesn't magically make the barrel cover 360 degrees around it either. It is fine as is.

On the other hand you can't exactly dodge a bullet, you aren't Neo.

https://youtu.be/WhxbYTMNMxo

You can, however, dodge where the barrel is pointing. Something that becomes more possible the closer you are to the firearm.

[Charon]

Originally posted by Shahadem:

Originally posted by Pronotum the Unforgiven:

The problem is even though the game doesn't show it, the closer someone is to you, sure they are a bigger target, but they also move faster in relation to how much you need to adjust position to stay poited at them.

So think missing point blank as them dodging. Having a shotgun doesn't magically make the barrel cover 360 degrees around it either. It is fine as is.

On the other hand you can't exactly dodge a bullet, you aren't Neo.

https://youtu.be/WhxbYTMNMxo

While i missed the conversation above that i can say that the military trains soldiers to use knifes when they come into the range of 6 feet of the enemy. If you now want to say the military education is completely wrong than you are free to convince military personal otherwise, i think they would be happy to oblidge.

[Terrified Mexican Man]

Originally posted by Charon:

Originally posted by Shahadem:

On the other hand you can't exactly dodge a bullet, you aren't Neo.

https://youtu.be/WhxbYTMNMxo

While i missed the conversation above that i can say that the military trains soldiers to use knifes when they come into the range of 6 feet of the enemy. If you now want to say the military education is completely wrong than you are free to convince military personal otherwise, i think they would be happy to oblidge.

What military would that be? Here in the US, only Marines are still actively trained in bayonet combat. If there is an enemy 6 feet away from you, then somebody somewhere ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up bigtime.

[Charon]

Originally posted by Assilla the Buns:

Originally posted by Charon:

While i missed the conversation above that i can say that the military trains soldiers to use knifes when they come into the range of 6 feet of the enemy. If you now want to say the military education is completely wrong than you are free to convince military personal otherwise, i think they would be happy to oblidge.

What military would that be? Here in the US, only Marines are still actively trained in bayonet combat. If there is an enemy 6 feet away from you, then somebody somewhere ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up bigtime.

I think you are misinformed. Im not talking about bayonett fights, im talking about knifes and everything that classifies as a knife.
Every soldier in every army gets trained in a knife fight, with the general consenus that a knife in a 6 feet range combat is a better weapon than any ranged one.
Every soldier gets trained in melee combat, some more, some less.

>If there is an enemy 6 feet away from you, then somebody somewhere ♥♥♥♥ed up bigtime.

You are focusing on the wrong thing, whether someone messed up along the way is not up to discussion. The focus is that when you are in that position melee weapons are argumently better by all militaristic standarts.
This is the representation when a Xenonaut runs up to a unit and shoots it. The above statement was that you cant dodge bullets ( because you are not Neo ) while the truth is all military units around the world train in close combat, where, again, a knife is better than a gun. That in turn means as a gameplay mechanic where your bullets can miss in close range is an more than accurate projection of realism into a game.

Dont mislead the discussion by defocusing.

[Terrified Mexican Man]

Originally posted by Charon:

Originally posted by Assilla the Buns:

What military would that be? Here in the US, only Marines are still actively trained in bayonet combat. If there is an enemy 6 feet away from you, then somebody somewhere ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up bigtime.

I think you are misinformed. Im not talking about bayonett fights, im talking about knifes and everything that classifies as a knife.
Every soldier in every army gets trained in a knife fight, with the general consenus that a knife in a 6 feet range combat is a better weapon than any ranged one.
Every soldier gets trained in melee combat, some more, some less.

>If there is an enemy 6 feet away from you, then somebody somewhere ♥♥♥♥ed up bigtime.

You are focusing on the wrong thing, whether someone messed up along the way is not up to discussion. The focus is that when you are in that position melee weapons are argumently better by all militaristic standarts.
This is the representation when a Xenonaut runs up to a unit and shoots it. The above statement was that you cant dodge bullets ( because you are not Neo ) while the truth is all military units around the world train in close combat, where, again, a knife is better than a gun. That in turn means as a gameplay mechanic where your bullets can miss in close range is an more than accurate projection of realism into a game.

Dont mislead the discussion by defocusing.

Right... Like I said, which specific armies are you talking about and who made this general consensus.

[Charon]

Originally posted by Assilla the Buns:

Originally posted by Charon:

I think you are misinformed. Im not talking about bayonett fights, im talking about knifes and everything that classifies as a knife.
Every soldier in every army gets trained in a knife fight, with the general consenus that a knife in a 6 feet range combat is a better weapon than any ranged one.
Every soldier gets trained in melee combat, some more, some less.

>If there is an enemy 6 feet away from you, then somebody somewhere ♥♥♥♥ed up bigtime.

You are focusing on the wrong thing, whether someone messed up along the way is not up to discussion. The focus is that when you are in that position melee weapons are argumently better by all militaristic standarts.
This is the representation when a Xenonaut runs up to a unit and shoots it. The above statement was that you cant dodge bullets ( because you are not Neo ) while the truth is all military units around the world train in close combat, where, again, a knife is better than a gun. That in turn means as a gameplay mechanic where your bullets can miss in close range is an more than accurate projection of realism into a game.

Dont mislead the discussion by defocusing.

Right... Like I said, which specific armies are you talking about and who made this general consensus.

Hm, you got me there. My information consists of people around the net, the overall cultural consensus in games, military structures and military equipment. Most of my knowledge comes from being knowledgeable in knifes and katanas and the useage for them.
But i dont have any direct source of military training methods in our current era.

As far as my personal knowledge goes, i can guarantee you that i would rather want to take a knife as soon as i know i go into close combat, as knifes are generally better. The things with guns is that at melee range they are terible inaccurate, and not always resulting in lethal damage.
They also dont have the stopping power. This is a problem that hunter face regularly, where you can deplete a full magnum round into the skull of an ape and he will still find the time to snap your spine before his brains tells him he is dead. The same goes for humans. A human being might still find the time to slit your throat even though the wound would need to get treated right away.
Apart from that, the spots a human needs to aim in close combat to make a lethal wound is awefully easy to predict, with a left swipe to the hand holding the gun simply having a higher chance of success of dismembering your acting arm than the chance of an instant lethal blow is.

There is simply a reason for the fact that more deadly knifes are still being invented, with even more stopping power, either vs animals or humans.

[Terrified Mexican Man]

Originally posted by Charon:

Originally posted by Assilla the Buns:

Right... Like I said, which specific armies are you talking about and who made this general consensus.

Hm, you got me there. My information consists of people around the net, the overall cultural consensus in games, military structures and military equipment. Most of my knowledge comes from being knowledgeable in knifes and katanas and the useage for them.
But i dont have any direct source of military training methods in our current era.

As far as my personal knowledge goes, i can guarantee you that i would rather want to take a knife as soon as i know i go into close combat, as knifes are generally better. The things with guns is that at melee range they are terible inaccurate, and not always resulting in lethal damage.
They also dont have the stopping power. This is a problem that hunter face regularly, where you can deplete a full magnum round into the skull of an ape and he will still find the time to snap your spine before his brains tells him he is dead. The same goes for humans. A human being might still find the time to slit your throat even though the wound would need to get treated right away.
Apart from that where a human needs to aim in close combat to make a lethal wound is awefully is to predict, with a left swipe to the hand holding the gun simply having a higher chance of success of dismembering your acting arm than the chance of an instant lethal blow is.

There is simply a reason for being still inventing more deadly knifes, with even more stopping power, either vs animals or humans.

A few problems here.

One, I automatically scoff at anyone saying they're knowledgable in katanas and their usage. Maybe that's just me.

Two, in what universe is shooting an ape considered "common." It's illegal in most countries...

Three, your issue with "lethal wounds" goes for knives as well. Often times a person who is stabbed will not even know they are stabbed until the fight is over.

Lastly, and I'm only going to tell you this once, there is almost NEVER going to be a situation in which throwing down your gun and pulling out your utility knife is the best course of action, outside of cutting open an MRE... Soldier's arent even issued combat knives anymore, unless you count the bayonet, which they ironically also tend to use as a utility knife...

If an enemy charges at you with a knife, you don't throw down your gun and fumble around trying to pull out your knife. You shoot him. If you're going into an area where you know theres enemies and you see one, you don't pull out your knife and charge. You shoot him. A moving target at close range would be an issue for someone who's never picked up a gun and tries to line up the shot. A well trained soldier will simply brace their legs, point the gun in their general direction, and squeeze the trigger until they're on the ground. The only time a soldier would resort to melee combat nowadays is if someone literally pops their head unexpectedly out of a doorway, which is nearly impossible. Someone somewhere will have noticed that they're there and you will be expecting it.

Even then you wouldn't waste time pulling out your knife. You'd grapple them to the ground.

[Charon]

Originally posted by Assilla the Buns:

Two, in what universe is shooting an ape considered "common." It's illegal in most countries...

I didnt say it was common, you seem to misunderstand everything i say. I merely took an ape as an example, explicitly gorillas and apes with a lot more muscles than brain, for wounds which might not have as much stopping power as a knife.

I never said anything about that being a common situation you have to defend against.

Originally posted by Assilla the Buns:

Three, your issue with "lethal wounds" goes for knives as well. Often times a person who is stabbed will not even know they are stabbed until the fight is over.

I think you are totally on another planet. When you take out your knife before your opponent and injure his arm/hand than he wont be able to harm you anymore for the next short amount of time. Whats the logical next step ? Take out your own knife. But you already got an injured arm and the other person definitely has the initiative.

Originally posted by Assilla the Buns:

Lastly, and I'm only going to tell you this once, there is almost NEVER going to be a situation in which throwing down your gun and pulling out your utility knife is the best course of action, outside of cutting open an MRE... Soldier's arent even issued combat knives anymore, unless you count the bayonet, which they ironically also tend to use as a utility knife...

Nobody said anything about throwing down your gun. A knife is better if you know you are going to use it, not when you are getting caught by surprise. So you pull out your knife beforehand.

We are both on the same page with your statements.


You dont seem to throughly understand that we are discussing the gameplay mechanic of missing shots at close range in favour of knifes being more accurate is an realistic projection into the game.

When will you understand that we are not discussing how real military gets equipted, and how real things work ? Furthermore we would even have to go back to 1979 knowledge of how things worked then. You are disccusing 2017 knowledge of bla bla bla. No offense intended.

Like i said, you are derailing from the simple logic i stated.

[Terrified Mexican Man]

Originally posted by Charon:

Originally posted by Assilla the Buns:

Two, in what universe is shooting an ape considered "common." It's illegal in most countries...

I didnt say it was common, you seem to misunderstand everything i say. I merely took an ape as an example, explicitly gorillas and apes with a lot more muscles than brain, for wounds which might not have as much stopping power as a knife.

I never said anything about that being a common situation you have to defend against.

Originally posted by Assilla the Buns:

Three, your issue with "lethal wounds" goes for knives as well. Often times a person who is stabbed will not even know they are stabbed until the fight is over.

I think you are totally on another planet. When you take out your knife before your opponent and injure his arm/hand than he wont be able to harm you anymore for the next short amount of time. Whats the logical next step ? Take out your own knife. But you already got an injured arm and the other person definitely has the initiative.

Originally posted by Assilla the Buns:

Lastly, and I'm only going to tell you this once, there is almost NEVER going to be a situation in which throwing down your gun and pulling out your utility knife is the best course of action, outside of cutting open an MRE... Soldier's arent even issued combat knives anymore, unless you count the bayonet, which they ironically also tend to use as a utility knife...

Nobody said anything about throwing down your gun. A knife is better if you know you are going to use it, not when you are getting caught by surprise. So you pull out your knife beforehand.

We are both on the same page with your statements.


You dont seem to throughly understand that we are discussing the gameplay mechanic of missing shots at close range in favour of knifes being more accurate is an realistic projection into the game.

When will you understand that we are not discussing how real military gets equipted, and how real things work ? Furthermore we would even have to go back to 1979 knowledge of how things worked then. You are disccusing 2017 knowledge of bla bla bla. No offense intended.

Like i said, you are derailing from the simple logic i stated.

Sure thing. I already said what I needed to say. Take from it what you will.

Good luck on your katana studies btw.