F16 or Mig 21bis?

[Viper]

Hi all :)
As the title said, I would like to buy one of these modules, but I don't know which one should be better for me. Previously I played with the "first" versions of a10c and black shark, but we speak of many years ago. Now I would like to start again to fly but i'm not sure which module is best for me. I always like the f16 as it can do a2a and a2g, but I also find the mig 21 quite interesting. I also don't know which could be more friendly for a beginner. The mig should have less technology and should be easier maybe?
Thanks for the help :)

[spike2071]

I own neither of these modules, but I just want to point out your name is Viper, so.... :)

[Troll Norris]

Those are very different aircrafts.
F-16 would be probably more friendly because it is easier to control it because its fly-by-wire system. It is very universal. But high verstaility means you have to learn how to use a lot of systems. Also F-16 has much more modern avionics.

Mig-21 is the cold war beast. Very small and very fast aircraft. It flies fast or it falls down like a brick. Keep your speed above around 600 kph IAS and it will serve you well. Keep it bellow 600 kph IAS and it will try to kill you. :D It is very analouge. No fancy HUD gizmo like altitude, speed and artificial horizon in HUD. Only the pipper :) Quite chalanging because it does not have any Fly-by-wire gizmo nor INS.

[joyi]

Real men fly mig21

[Vanhala]

From the point of view of having previous A-10C experience you would probably enjoy F-16 more. They're not the same by any means, but far more similar pair that A-10C and the MiG. Also do you prefer multiplayer, and if so, PVE or PVP, since in PVP you can't do with the 21 (unless you play in cold war servers).

Also the MiG, while being a great module, has aged quite a bit. It was originally released for DCS 1.5 or something. That might not be a flaw, but it certainly is something you should know!

[startrekmike]

First off, don't worry about which aircraft is easier. At the end of the day, every DCS module has a pretty smooth learning curve as long as you are willing to actually learn. Those that don't wish to learn or want shortcuts around the learning process are going to have a hard time but those that embrace that learning process will find that even the most complex DCS module is pretty straightforward to learn.

Now let's get into the F-16 and MiG-21.

One thing that you will probably want to keep in mind before we go forward is that the F-16 is still very much in early access and as a result, it doesn't have a good chunk of its capabilities yet. It can do some stuff okay but if you are looking for a realistic experience, the F-16 simply isn't complete enough to provide that. That being said. Since the F/A-18C module is coming out of early access and since the F-16 and the F/A-18C share so many general system commonalities, it will probably not be long for the F-16 to be "mission ready" in the same way the Hornet module only recently became "mission ready".

In contrast. The MiG-21 has been out for a long time and while it occasionally gets bugs that need to be fixed, it is generally complete and does not need any functionality added.

Going forward. Let's assume that we are talking about a complete (or at least very nearly complete) F-16 module and MiG-21 module. This way, we can talk about how these aircraft will stack up in terms of overall experience.

1.) MiG-21. The Fishbed is (at its core) a high speed, high altitude interceptor that was designed in the mid 50's and put into service at the end of that decade. To say that it is a old design is a understatement. The version we have came out in the early 70's and while some may call it "multi-role", it is still very much a interceptor with somewhat limited, primitive bombing/rocket capability.

In terms of air to air capability, it's roots as a high altitude interceptor are pretty clear. It has a primitive, short range fire control radar that you can use to help guide your weapons but it isn't the kind of radar you would use to search for targets beyond visual range. If you are in range to lock someone up on radar, you are already well inside visual range and are only using that radar to help guide a weapon on to the target.

For air to air weapons, you have the gun (a pretty decent one actually), the R-60 (a fairly modern Russian IR guided missile), and a bunch of very old, quite outdated missiles that are (mostly) derivatives of a salvaged early Sidewinder. They work okay but don't expect them to keep up with more modern weapons in the slightest.

For air to ground, you have rockets, dumb bombs, and a radar guided air to ground missile. It is all pretty hands-on stuff and can be quite a bit of fun to learn to use accurately. It is worth saying however that just because you can strap bombs to the MiG doesn't make it a "multi-role fighter" in the modern sense of the term. It can use those weapons pretty effectively but it obviously isn't what that plane was really intended to do on a basic design level.

The MiG-21 is a great module if you are looking for that early jet experience. It is very "hands on" and while it isn't exactly difficult to fly, it can be demanding due to its aerodynamic limitations. This is not a module you would get with the intention of directly taking on more modern fighters in fair, one on one battles but if used in a somewhat realistic manner (where you are part of a much larger group of MiG-21's taking on a much smaller number of better, more sophisticated fighters), it can be a very, very interesting experience and a good way to explore the kind of doctrine that MiG-21 users had to actually employ.

2.) F-16. The Viper is pretty much the textbook definition of a modern multi-role fighter. In a lot of ways, the F-16 was one of the standard bearers of the 4th generation, multi-role design. It may have had its start as a rather limited aircraft but it didn't take all that long for the Air Force to add more and more functionality to it. Like the Hornet, the Viper we have in DCS is meant to do just about any role reasonably well and doesn't have any major compromises. It can do air to air tasks just as well as it can do a wide variety of air to ground tasks.

The F-16's primary role in the past thirty years or so has largely been air to ground and in a lot of ways, it shows. The module we have can drop GPS guided bombs, laser guided bombs, and unguided bombs very accurately. Likewise. It can launch maverick missiles and even has a strong SEAD capability with the use of the HARM missile in conjunction with the HTS pod. Whereas the MiG-21 struggles to deliver just about any of its ground munitions accurately, the F-16 has no difficulties at all.

In an air to air capacity, the F-16 is also very capable. it has a good long range radar, modern IR missiles (the rather scary AIM-9X being the best example), and solid long range AIM-120 missiles for beyond visual range work. To put it bluntly. You will be able to spot, lock on to, shoot, and probably kill a MiG-21 before they ever get a chance to even see you.

It may seem like I am bashing the MiG-21 here but I am not. I like the MiG-21. I actually consider it one of my all time favorite aircraft and it is a very solid module in DCS. That being said. It is also one of the more limited aircraft in DCS and while that can be interesting in itself, it can also mean that there just isn't a lot to chew on. Some might really attach themselves to the MiG-21 module because it doesn't require a whole lot of raw "book learning" to really hop into and go but that lack of "book learning" also means it doesn't really have a ton of stuff to explore and really master. For a relatively experienced simmer, the MiG-21 module is a day worth of serious study while the F-16 is several weeks or months worth of exploring and learning (and learning can be quite fun).

So what should you get? In the end, I think it is more important to give you a overview of the aircraft (as I did above) and let you decide that based on your own needs/preferences. The MiG-21 can be a lot of fun but it is also not the deepest, most feature rich experience. The F-16 may seem complex but due to its design, it is actually pretty straightforward to learn and doesn't take nearly as much effort as some might say it does.

If I were in your specific situation, I would probably expand my list to also include the F/A-18C. The only reason I say that is because at this very moment, the F-16 is still rather incomplete and the F/A-18C offers a VERY similar overall experience and is much, much further along. There are some things the F-16 will do better (especially SEAD missions) but the Hornet also has carrier operations which can be quite fun and quite challenging.

Assuming a expanded list that also includes the Hornet, I would say go for the Hornet first just because it will let you do a lot of different types of missions really, really effectively. The MiG-21 is a good module but it is only really good if you truly want that late 50's high-speed, high altitude interceptor experience SPECIFICALLY. It is a great module but it is probably one that I would get only after I have others that interest me a lot more.

[Viper]

Thanks for all the replies, especially Startrekmike for the long explanation :D
I will consider the F18 as well now. I think I will look into some youtube videos about these 3 aircrafts and decide in these days :)
I didn't know the f16 was still in development, so I think I will wait for some more time, while I like the fact that the Mig is already finished and only requires few tweaks.
My only fear toward the f18 is that I really sucks at landing on carrier, and I hope not to get discouraged by always failing at it :P