Helicopters really this difficult?

[Crimzin]

I have been trying to get into helicopters in DCS, I have trailed them, I use an X52 Pro joystick but I just cant get consistent, do you really have to fight that much in real life? the KA52 seemed OK, but the AH64D seems impossible, It does so much movement on its own and sometimes the throttle works as you expect and other times It does not.

I noticed the WW2 planes are sort of the same, flying them is OK but taking off is a nightmare, they do so much unpredictable things on there own you end up just fighting to keep the thing straight, same as AH64D, your first time is like "no way could I ever fly this" then maybe 10 - 20 times later it sort off becomes easier but that's not really the point, the point is Do they REALLY behave like that? is it just making things difficult because "SIM"??

[bingbean]

It is impossible make 100% accurate simulator , but they try to go so close as possible. I do not fly real helicopter , but i believe IRL it should be easier as it is in DCS. Not because the DCS is made more hard, but because you don't have right peripheral. You can make much more easy lite adjustment by 50+ cm long stick as you can by 20 cm joystick. IRL you have available all your senses to feel what is going on with helicopter. In sim you have a feedback only yours eyes, on flat screen even with huge limitation of read right way distance.
So it is natural you have to train your brain and muscle memory to master control a helicopter , but different way IRL and different way in DCS.

[Jel]

I won´t go into details but yes: DCS gets most things pretty right, sometimes even spot-on.
With 20 years on a helicopter, i was surprised how much detail has gone into those flight models on almost every rotary module.
A rotary has no own stability whatsoever, the day you start understanding the physics behind it, things may get easier.
Same with piston engine fixed wing: Those engines have their own "specialities" to take care of, things like torque, P-factor and many more. The main reason DCS seems difficult for some ppl might be, that DCS tries to simulate as close as possible. Not like MSFS modules where you can make yourself a sandwich while flying a Bell212 :)

For yourself, i suggest to get into more details considering helicopter physics. And/Or your may want to have a look into the forums https://forum.dcs.world/ for more community help. There you will also find some communities that are always glad to help new pilots getting first hands-on experience.

[Gunfreak]

Originally posted by Crimzin:

I have been trying to get into helicopters in DCS, I have trailed them, I use an X52 Pro joystick but I just cant get consistent, do you really have to fight that much in real life? the KA52 seemed OK, but the AH64D seems impossible, It does so much movement on its own and sometimes the throttle works as you expect and other times It does not.

I noticed the WW2 planes are sort of the same, flying them is OK but taking off is a nightmare, they do so much unpredictable things on there own you end up just fighting to keep the thing straight, same as AH64D, your first time is like "no way could I ever fly this" then maybe 10 - 20 times later it sort off becomes easier but that's not really the point, the point is Do they REALLY behave like that? is it just making things difficult because "SIM"??

WW2 aircraft while hard to take off and land in. Aren't unpredictable. Once you've figured itcpit you can do the thing each time. What makes ww2 aircraft hard to take off in is the torque and in aircraft like Spitfire and 109 the narrow landing gear.

But you aren't making it any easier on yourself with the x52. Real warbird and helicopter sticks are like 40-60cm long while the x52 has like 2cm.
So if a real warbird pilot moved the stick a little to the left. He'd get 5 degrees deflection. Same movement on your 52 translate to like 30 degrees of movement in the stick. That's why you need lots of curves in warbirds and helicopters with short gaming sticks.
Also pedals are a huge advantage when it comes to both warbirds and helicopters.

On take off with say the Spitfire. As you throttle up you need to "kick" the rudder to the right to adjust for the torque. Then left, then right etc.

In a helicopter it's even more important as any adjustment to the collective or cyclic changes the balance of the aircraft.
And just taking off with half fuel vs full fuel will change were you need to have your cyclic and pedals on take off.
Now many people do fly warbirds and helicopters with an x52 or similar setups. In fact I would assume most fly dcs or other airsims with these lower priced readily available sticks. So it is perfectly possible. It just makes it harder.

[Randy Lahey]

Originally posted by Crimzin:

is it just making things difficult because "SIM"??

If you're going to mainly fly helicopters and WW2 planes, then you either need rudder pedals, or a stick with a really good twist mechanic, like the VKB Gladiator. Also, add some axis curves in the control settings. The Apache is probably the worst for trying to take off, although the Hind can be a pain too.

[Troll Norris]

About prop planes you have to understand their propeller. Those are predictable. But you have to know what is happening and why it is happening. See this video: https://youtu.be/0bP2MH3LqvI

For helicopters you mainly need to know how to use trim:
https://youtu.be/q7VoI_sMmyQ

If you have question on how to take of with desired aircraft, let me know.

Also in most helicopters you don't control throttle. Throttle is controlled by automatic governor. You control the collective - pitch of rotor blades. Governor keeps the RPM stable by adjusting throttle. At some RPM the engine has the best torque. The automatic governor tries to keep those RPM.
Check this guide. It explains everything:
https://www.helisimmer.com/how-to-fly-helicopters

As the new you may probably have the most problems with "settling with power"
https://youtu.be/np5dpEXcmNU?si=axBj7D6pr-zEEHLB

About vortex ring state:
https://youtu.be/HjeRSDsy-nE?si=IB6UHrp18lSRBfYD

Also some people think the Vortex ring state and settling with power are the same. But those are not. VRS is when the helicopter enters its own downwash. Settling with power is when the rotor's drag is so high that engine is no more able to keep nominal RPM. Because of the RPM are not nominal, it producess less lift and also you can stall the main rotor.

In some helicopters you also need to mind the mast bumping:
https://youtu.be/_QkOpH2e6tM

[Troll Norris]

Originally posted by tryToBeNice:

why do think that the Russian helicopter is much better than the apache? HUH ? Go and ask the devs in Moscow.

Don't make a fool of yourself.

[Gunfreak]

Originally posted by tryToBeNice:

why do think that the Russian helicopter is much better than the apache? HUH ? Go and ask the devs in Moscow.

What are you on about?
The apache is an insane killing machine that surpasses all other helicopters and most jets in its ability to just totalt wipe out any vehicle that exists within a 5nm radius.

[JBM]

Helicopters are notoriously difficult to get used to because of their flight dynamics. I began using heli sims over 20 years ago and became something of a pro (or so I thought), but when I first tried flying the Mi-8 in DCS, it was like starting over. Now, I fly helicopters in both DCS and MSFS for hours at a time without issues.

Many moons ago, a real heli pilot described hovering as "balancing a marble on a sheet of glass while standing on a beach ball." While I think that's a great analogy, forward flight in a helicopter isn't too different from that of fixed wing aircraft. Transitioning to and from the hover certainly takes a lot of practice, and you generally need to be constantly thinking ahead, anticipating the aircraft's response to your every input so you can be ready to react to it. A bit like correcting movements which haven't happened yet. It sounds crazy, but it makes sense when you're actually doing it.

And that's without considering the dangers of things like Vortex Ring State (VRS). FWIW, I had great fun practising the Vuichard Recovery Technique in the Mi-8, a helicopter which will easily fall victim to VRS if you don't keep an eye on your rate of descent!

It's like everything else. Practice makes perfect.

[Gunfreak]

Also there is a general consensus from real life helicopter pilots that helicopters in DCS to easily end up in VRS.
It's just one of those things apparently. Much like real fighter pilots say air to air refueling is harder in DCS than real life.

[Troll Norris]

Originally posted by Gunfreak:

Also there is a general consensus from real life helicopter pilots that helicopters in DCS to easily end up in VRS.
It's just one of those things apparently. Much like real fighter pilots say air to air refueling is harder in DCS than real life.

Dunno. For me it feels super easy last time.

[Czar]

If you're fighting the helicopter, you're doing something wrong or there is something wrong with your controller config or physically......or the obvious: not enough practice.

If you came from warthunder or other heli games, you'll need to forget how those worked.

I fly the Huey, Ka-50 and the Mi-8. I didn't needed to fight them to fly them. I can't comment on the Apache or Gazele as I don't own them.

[Czar]

Originally posted by Gunfreak:

It's just one of those things apparently. Much like real fighter pilots say air to air refueling is harder in DCS than real life.

This is the silliest thing I've read about DCS this year.

It is 100% the opposite, and I'm flying in 2D.

There are a LOT more going on in IRL refueling.

[Gunfreak]

Originally posted by C z a r .:

Originally posted by Gunfreak:

It's just one of those things apparently. Much like real fighter pilots say air to air refueling is harder in DCS than real life.

This is the silliest thing I've read about DCS this year.

It is 100% the opposite, and I'm flying in 2D.

There are a LOT more going on in IRL refueling.

Take it up with real fighter pilots.
The boom work nothing like the real thing, you have to be far more accurate in DCS than real life, in real life the boom operator helps you much more. And once connected its much easier holding it there as there is a proper connection between the boom and your aircraft (the real boom is capable of arresting the backwards movement of a 13 ton F4.)

[Czar]

Originally posted by Gunfreak:

Originally posted by C z a r .:

This is the silliest thing I've read about DCS this year.

It is 100% the opposite, and I'm flying in 2D.

There are a LOT more going on in IRL refueling.

Take it up with real fighter pilots.
The boom work nothing like the real thing, you have to be far more accurate in DCS than real life, in real life the boom operator helps you much more. And once connected its much easier holding it there as there is a proper connection between the boom and your aircraft (the real boom is capable of arresting the backwards movement of a 13 ton F4.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjGjcE7LA08

Ignore the fake telemetry on the video.

There are a lot more involved in comms and aircraft control.

DCS is already easy. If DCS is harder than real life, the folklore about air refueling being a challenging endeavor is fake?

It is ludicrous to think DCS air refueling is remotely comparable to real life.
The absolute minimum that is happening is that real pilots had little to zero actual practice on DCS and their muscle memory is conflicting to the game.

I love DCS to its bones but lets get back to reality here, please.

Let's not even begin talking about basket AAR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDTRmF8PPgY

If you take your time to actually watch this video to its entirety and listen to the actual real pilot on the hornet throughout the video you might consider ditching this erroneous assumption that DCS in its current state is remotely comparable to this.

[Gunfreak]

You can post as many vidoes as you like. But as far as I know. All fighter pilots that has AAR in real life and in DCS, and been asked has said its harder in DCS.