Russian bombs poor accuracy

[wjayson1981]

I used CCIP to drop bombs on Su-27/33, Mig-29A/S, Su-25 and J-11A, most of the bombs missed badly. US CCIP works fine except for CBU-97 on F-16C that it won't drop most of the time. Are Russian aircraft CCIP really that bad in reality having real poor accuracy?

I set mission editor getting squadrons of Su-34, Su-25, Su-27/33, KA-50 & Mi-28 to attack US airbase heavily defended by tanks. MANPADS and SAM. Most of Russian aircraft ended being destroyed with few choppers taking hits.

Then I set similar mission with US multi-role aircraft to attack Russian airbase heavily defended by SAM, AAA, MANPADS. Most of US aircraft survived and successfully destroyed large numbers of enemy ground targets

[Onno]

2 reasons:

1. they are unguided

2. The Russian design is aerodynamically challenged, so it wobbles more.

[Insônia]

fc3 ag bomb physics is really really basic. They either don't work or super precise. Human player should not have problem with non cluster bomb on FC3 aircraft(su2527 a-10a etc..), actually too accuract as long as player did not make mistake.
AI tho.. different story.
So probably you were messing with ai again?

[Troll Norris]

As far as I know the bomb physics are indepemdent on module. You have to take wind into account and also you have to follow the right procedure.

[wjayson1981]

Originally posted by Onno:

2 reasons:

1. they are unguided

2. The Russian design is aerodynamically challenged, so it wobbles more.

aerodynamically challenged on aircraft or the bomb?

[Troll Norris]

Dunno. what was meant by that, but follow few rules.
Place the pipper bellow the target.
Do not change your pitch. Wait until the pipper "catches" the target.
Once it catches target, release weapon.

[wjayson1981]

Originally posted by Insônia:

fc3 ag bomb physics is really really basic. They either don't work or super precise. Human player should not have problem with non cluster bomb on FC3 aircraft(su2527 a-10a etc..), actually too accuract as long as player did not make mistake.
AI tho.. different story.
So probably you were messing with ai again?

Originally posted by Troll Norris:

As far as I know the bomb physics are indepemdent on module. You have to take wind into account and also you have to follow the right procedure.

The CCIP pipper in Su-27/33 unlike in US aircraft, the pipper is like telling me to do steep dive bombing. So I would climb to altitude and perform junker style dive bombing to be precise, always have to wait for LA (Launch Authorized) before pressing release trigger. I read this from the old 1990/1991 Mig-29 DOS PC Game manual telling me to drop bomb this way to increase accuracy instead of US style where the pipper accurately telling where the bomb would land on. With US base defended by M-6 Linebacker and FIM-92 (after Su-34 on SEAD launched their KH-31P neutralizing MIM-104 and NASAM), I always ended being shot down by FIM-92 & M-6 Linebacker before I could perform this maneuver. Flying straight then nose down to drop bomb where FAB-500 or RBK-500 would eventually missed by far hitting nothing or just merely damaging tanks or killing few ground troopers.

AI controlled Su-27, Su-34, Su-24 failed to hit their targets with unguided bombs too. The Su-25, Su-34 and Su-24 managed to launch their Kh-25/29/31P/41 at tanks, MANPADS, M-6 and SAM Sites NASAM, Patriot but most of the Russian aircraft being shot down by US missiles that have better PK. Casualties really high that the US ground based SAMs alone could take out all the Russian attacking aircraft without needing US fighters. I was expecting the Kh-29L/T to have greater blast radius looking at their 1400lb weight but they just took out tanks and light or unarmored SAM vehicles 1 at a time like AGM-65.

Creating the same equivalent mission for US in comparison, with 123 ground targets comprised of Russian troops, MBT, IFV, SAM (Igla, SA-11, SA-10, 2S6) protecting the airbase, US attacking force comprised of 16 aircraft (A-10C. F-16C, F/A-18C, F-15E) destroyed all the ground targets while losing only 6 aircraft. The unguided bombs mostly hit their targets.

Whereas Russian attacking squadrons comprised of 24 aircraft (Su-24, Su-25, Su-27, Su-34) ended with 22 being destroyed & 2 badly damaged bugging out destroying only 16 ground targets.

[wjayson1981]

Originally posted by Troll Norris:

Dunno. what was meant by that, but follow few rules.
Place the pipper bellow the target.
Do not change your pitch. Wait until the pipper "catches" the target.
Once it catches target, release weapon.

I did but the bombs would missed. Only dive bombing gets better hit percentage. AI would do normal bombing run and still they missed. Then they all ended being shot down mercilessly by US SAM. Russian guided air to ground missiles didn't help neither. In actual Ukraine war, the Russian 4th generation aircraft and attack helicopters that were shot down were carrying unguided rockets and bombs therefore they have to get into SAM & AAA deadly effective range below 1.5nm

[Onno]

Originally posted by Troll Norris:

Dunno. what was meant by that, but follow few rules.
Place the pipper bellow the target.
Do not change your pitch. Wait until the pipper "catches" the target.
Once it catches target, release weapon.

Check wikipedia, it explains that the russian bombs are shaped in a way that makes high speed delivery less accurate.

[wjayson1981]

Originally posted by Onno:

Originally posted by Troll Norris:

Dunno. what was meant by that, but follow few rules.
Place the pipper bellow the target.
Do not change your pitch. Wait until the pipper "catches" the target.
Once it catches target, release weapon.

Check wikipedia, it explains that the russian bombs are shaped in a way that makes high speed delivery less accurate.

That's too bad, any thoughts on their air to ground missiles capabilities? It is kinda bad for the Russians when up against enemy that has good air to ground defenses. The US has all the air to ground missiles and stand off ordnance to take out enemy SAM, AAA, MANPADS before finishing off the sitting ducks helpless tanks, vehicles, troops, structures. Russian air force in DCS look like they have to sustain high casualties to take out whatever they could before being shot down.

[Onno]

Originally posted by wjayson1981:

Originally posted by Onno:

Check wikipedia, it explains that the russian bombs are shaped in a way that makes high speed delivery less accurate.

That's too bad, any thoughts on their air to ground missiles capabilities? It is kinda bad for the Russians when up against enemy that has good air to ground defenses. The US has all the air to ground missiles and stand off ordnance to take out enemy SAM, AAA, MANPADS before finishing off the sitting ducks helpless tanks, vehicles, troops, structures. Russian air force in DCS look like they have to sustain high casualties to take out whatever they could before being shot down.

I just responded to a request for more information in regard to the bombs. The bombs are limited set of known quantities. I don't know which missile you are referring to and the possibilities are vast. Without knowing which missile I can't really comment.

[Perfect Info]

The FC3 aircraft are very arcade-like and honestly more for a fun break from more serious modules. In the Su-27 or Su-33, I'd just either load out with more unguided bombs (Su-27 can carry 31x FAB-250) and use big salvos rather than trying to "snipe", or the very satisfying S-25 rockets. Which are basically "what if we take FAB-250, but add rocket motor?" The S-25's are definitely capable of "sniping" vehicles.

Su-25 should be using laser-guided weapons if you want accuracy. Something really enjoyable about the line-of-sight style guidance in the original Su-25.

[Gunfreak]

You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means

War Thunder is arcade, ace combat is very arcade. FC3 planes are not arcade. In fact they are more realistic than some of the most realistic sims that existed in say 2006. They are just older and simpler because of constraints of the time. Not the same as arcade.

[Troll Norris]

Accurancy is good. Check the vid I've made. Black smoke = hit. To achieve that, follow my rules.

Originally posted by Troll Norris:

Place the pipper bellow the target.
Do not change your pitch. Wait until the pipper "catches" the target.
Once it catches target, release weapon.

https://youtu.be/7s7Ry6MfyDQ

I've made that from quite low altitude. It is possible from whatever altitude. Better from 2km than 1500 and with speed of 800kph IAS

[wjayson1981]

Originally posted by Perfect Info:

The FC3 aircraft are very arcade-like and honestly more for a fun break from more serious modules. In the Su-27 or Su-33, I'd just either load out with more unguided bombs (Su-27 can carry 31x FAB-250) and use big salvos rather than trying to "snipe", or the very satisfying S-25 rockets. Which are basically "what if we take FAB-250, but add rocket motor?" The S-25's are definitely capable of "sniping" vehicles.

Su-25 should be using laser-guided weapons if you want accuracy. Something really enjoyable about the line-of-sight style guidance in the original Su-25.

FC3 aircraft isn't arcade and it's still considered realistic flight sim without high fidelity working virtual cockpit button. Only thing is developer didn't bother to add further realism especially related to air to ground armament onto those aircraft. When comes to mission editor especially, those non-flyable aircraft and helicopters flown by AI being left half functional that they tend to carry out their designated sorties real badly. When not being fired at, the KA-50, Mi-28 would spend much time busy flying back and forth few times before launching Vikhr or ATAKA at enemy tanks and air defenses. Same goes to Su-34, Su-25 that are flown by AI.

I don't enjoy flying the Su-25 with its real bad avionics. Wish developer would do something about giving more effort on Russian 4th generation aircraft notably flyable Su-30M and Su-34 that are in this game so that Russian Air Force could compete against superior US faction.

[wjayson1981]

Originally posted by Troll Norris:

Accurancy is good. Check the vid I've made. Black smoke = hit. To achieve that, follow my rules.

Originally posted by Troll Norris:

Place the pipper bellow the target.
Do not change your pitch. Wait until the pipper "catches" the target.
Once it catches target, release weapon.

https://youtu.be/7s7Ry6MfyDQ¨

I've made that from quite low altitude. It is possible from whatever altitude. Better from 2km than 1500 and with speed of 800kph IAS

I can't view the video.