DCS World Steam Edition

DCS World Steam Edition

Mig-21 Ground handling update!
Hello everyone, last time i got mig-21 and since weeks im messing with mig-21.

However there is one thing which bugs me, that is ground handling of Mig-21.

I think ground handling of the aircraft is done poorly because on taking-off and landing the aircraft bounces and shakes left/right TOO MUCH than in real life.

I know how Mig-21 should feel like, its a beast and it needs high speed for landing because of the weight and delta wings.

Here's an example of smooth landing the Mig-21 in real life http://youtu.be/orbQU8ooo54?t=24s

Notice it does note bounce like it does in the game, when it touches the ground it just lands after a small bump because of weight/speed, but in the game the aircraft bounces unrealistically as it is a rubber ball?

Please tell me if the creators are updating the ground handling?
Naposledy upravil skulz87; 25. pro. 2014 v 14.55
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Zobrazeno 115 z 17 komentářů
Adjust your dead zone and curve, like 5-10 and 20-30 respectively.
The MiG-21 does not bounce for me, those oscillations are avoidable.
It's up to the pilot to get the feel for and control that.
Example would be pulling on the stick or setting a bit of trim so the front wheel doesn't absorb as much force while taking off.

There's no point in comparing your experience in DCS with a real life pilot flying the MiG, as he knows exactly what he's doing, has experience. You simply cannot expect to perform as well as the real pilot, even in basic aircraft handling, maybe with time.
=AiR FoRCe= původně napsal:
Adjust your dead zone and curve, like 5-10 and 20-30 respectively.
The MiG-21 does not bounce for me, those oscillations are avoidable.
It's up to the pilot to get the feel for and control that.
Example would be pulling on the stick or setting a bit of trim so the front wheel doesn't absorb as much force while taking off.

There's no point in comparing your experience in DCS with a real life pilot flying the MiG, as he knows exactly what he's doing, has experience. You simply cannot expect to perform as well as the real pilot, even in basic aircraft handling, maybe with time.
Hi, thanks for the advice but i think you didnt understand where my problem is.

My problem is with ground handling, the aircraft bounces unrealistically, I have tried hundred of times and no matter how smooth my wheels touch the ground the flight will bounce like i am throwing a rubber ball.
I understand that you're talking about the alleged overly simulated bouncing on the ground during stressful stages like takeoff and landing.

Believe me, this is avoidable with correct and smooth control input.

In the video, the real pilot does it exceptionally well.
He also has no weapons and is probably low on fuel.
And viewing from the outside, the bouncing is less noticeable.
The tree happens to cover the first wheel touchdown moment also.

Also, if you have Head Movement from G forces enabled (LWin F1), it may exaggerate your perception of the bouncing from inside the pit.

You are not supposed to be landing fully fueled and weaponized, unless you're a total ace.
And during takeoff, there are rocket boosters that can assist, so the least amount of time is spent on the runway. Again, please understand that you simply cannot compare your experience with the real pilot who has thousands of flight hours.

Please, make a mission, takeoff and land, post the track, it will include the mission.
I will fly take off and land also, and can create a short video.

I'm not saying that the ground simulation is perfect, like everything, it needs work, but it certainly requires precision handling, as I'm sure like IRL.

But if you didn't look on page 19 of the DCS MiG-21Bis Manual, and set the dead zones and curvatures accordingly, or higher, do so now, and try again.
skulz87 původně napsal:
My problem is with ground handling, the aircraft bounces unrealistically, I have tried hundred of times and no matter how smooth my wheels touch the ground the flight will bounce like i am throwing a rubber ball.

Consider that one coder of the module is an ACTUAL Mig-21 pilot.
Do you have experience that can rival that?

If it is too much to handle then DCS options has slider to reduce/increase the shaking (under options -> special -> Mig-21).
Naposledy upravil kazereal; 26. pro. 2014 v 9.57
kazereal původně napsal:
skulz87 původně napsal:
My problem is with ground handling, the aircraft bounces unrealistically, I have tried hundred of times and no matter how smooth my wheels touch the ground the flight will bounce like i am throwing a rubber ball.

Consider that one coder of the module is an ACTUAL Mig-21 pilot.
Do you have experience that can rival that?

If it is too much to handle then DCS options has slider to reduce/increase the shaking (under options -> special -> Mig-21).
Can the developer post a video of himself landing the DCS Mig-21 smoothly without earthquake then?

Im sure even the creator cant land smoothly, I actually challenge them to land without earthquakes because it needs to be tweaked.

Ground handling needs to be tweaked, the amount of the bounce and shake is beyond normal, Im not new to DCS and flight Sims, Im flying sims more than 15 years.
skulz87 původně napsal:
Ground handling needs to be tweaked, the amount of the bounce and shake is beyond normal, Im not new to DCS and flight Sims, Im flying sims more than 15 years.

And I've started flying sims in the 80's (MSX, Amiga, PC..).
skulz87 původně napsal:
Can the developer post a video of himself landing the DCS Mig-21 smoothly without earthquake then?

Im sure even the creator cant land smoothly, I actually challenge them to land without earthquakes because it needs to be tweaked.

Ground handling needs to be tweaked, the amount of the bounce and shake is beyond normal, Im not new to DCS and flight Sims, Im flying sims more than 15 years.

First I'm gonna giggle a bit @ the first two statements lol

Now if such issue exists, it's certainly on the list of fixes already, as other, more important ones.
Maybe post on the official Eagle forums?

And I fly this ED simulator for 20 years. Who cares?
It still doesn't compare to being a real pilot.
=AiR FoRCe= původně napsal:
And I fly this ED simulator for 20 years. Who cares?
It still doesn't compare to being a real pilot.

That is true :)

skulz87 původně napsal:
Can the developer post a video of himself landing the DCS Mig-21 smoothly without earthquake then?

Usually if landing is bumpy either angle is wrong or speed is too high - possibly both.
So double-check everything, especially UNITS of the values.
Like AiR Force said: please make a track to show the behaviour you find erroneous.

It is impossible to meaningfully discuss this without being sure everyone is talking about the same thing. Simply make an empty map with your plane, takeoff, land, and at the debriefing screen select "save track". Upload that file from your Saved Games folder.

Are you seeing the same as this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrGaGj1lb7U
Tatsue původně napsal:
Like AiR Force said: please make a track to show the behaviour you find erroneous.

It is impossible to meaningfully discuss this without being sure everyone is talking about the same thing. Simply make an empty map with your plane, takeoff, land, and at the debriefing screen select "save track". Upload that file from your Saved Games folder.

Are you seeing the same as this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrGaGj1lb7U
Yes the same problem, landing almost perfect but look from outside, it bounces and goes left and right like there is problem with hydraulics/suspensions of the wheel, it is too stiff.

Edit: The problem can be seen here while taking-off too.

http://youtu.be/qafaA6x375I?t=5m30s

Look how the aircraft starts to shake, why shaking too much going left and right?
Naposledy upravil skulz87; 26. pro. 2014 v 13.47
skulz87 původně napsal:
Edit: The problem can be seen here while taking-off too.

http://youtu.be/qafaA6x375I?t=5m30s

Look how the aircraft starts to shake, why shaking too much going left and right?

That is absolutely normal for this aircraft.

It is not a jumbo-jet.

Other sims like FSX are too limited on their flight model and they don't simulate suspension and ground effect accurately or properly: in those flying is too much like "on the rails" to even begin to compare here.
skulz87 původně napsal:
Here's an example of smooth landing the Mig-21 in real life http://youtu.be/orbQU8ooo54?t=24s

The video camera is so far and so shaky here that you can't really compare how it looks in the cockpit from this..

Also different airfields are bumpier than others..
Naposledy upravil kazereal; 27. pro. 2014 v 3.19
I dont think I can explain with my average English, here i will try to explain with more detail.

What Im saying the aircraft feels like a rubber ball! Yes, when you contact to the ground the aircraft will bounce beyond in realistic way, especially front wheel.

I have watched hundreds of videos and nowhere I have seen they bounce like the DCS Mig-21 does with many different angles and speeds.

My problem is not with bumping, every aircraft bumps when you contact the ground, my problem is not with that, my problem is with bouncing and going left and right beyond normal.

Here is an excellent video of Mig-21 takeoff and landings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq9vdzTrUek

The camera is not shaky in here and you can watch in HD to make it clear, and watch how takeoffs and landings are.

Takeoffs the aircraft isnt going left/right and not bouncing like a rubber.

Landings, again the camera is perfectly fine and watch in HD, nowhere they bounce like in DCS, they just bump one or two or three, then they settle down to the ground.

DCS takeoff is like when you gain speed the rear wheels will start bounce and push your one side to air, again too much bounce and that makes your aircraft go left and right while takeoff.

DCS landings it like your wheels have been made out of balloons, when you contact to the ground it throws you back to air, bounce bounce... then front wheels, bounce bounce until it slows down too much, it is like throwing a basketball ball to the ground :))

Edit: Compare to DCS landing http://youtu.be/SrGaGj1lb7U?t=5m30s

The landing is almost perfect but the aircraft bounces like a ball.
Naposledy upravil skulz87; 27. pro. 2014 v 6.27
Again, to compare with what you are experiencing in-game, we'd need to see a track file.

Simply press the "save track" button after flight. That will let people see if anything is amiss in your handling.

(But as people have mentioned: handling jets is something that takes a LOT of skill and practice. Most people you see in videos of real aircraft will typically have at the least hundreds of hours in that type alone, very likely more. If you want to consider how much practice matters, note the statistics for when pilots tend to crash their planes; landing and takeoff are pretty big players in those statistics.)

Without seeing what is actually happening on your screen, arguing via Youtube proxy is 100% pointless; especially when there are people involved who fly the real thing as a profession. By way of analogy: when I first took DCS P-51 up in the air, I thought things were totally off, but with some targeted practice in the controls I became able to make smooth and pretty landings in the sim. In order to be sure that this isn't what your issue is - again, we need a track file. It takes you roughly 2-3 minutes to prepare and upload. :)
Naposledy upravil Tatsue; 27. pro. 2014 v 14.49
Most runways quality is poor in DCS.
The wheels are bouncing from it, as they absorb the forces.
Try another runway, like the smooth one at Tbilisi.
I just took off and landed with 50% fuel and even though it wasnt perfect, it wasn't terrible.

Maybe visually it's a bit exaggerated. All of it is WIP (Work in Progress) anyway.
I suggest that you search for or post this issue on the official Eagle forums.
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Datum zveřejnění: 25. pro. 2014 v 14.02
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