Su-25 for DCS World & Su-27 for DCS vs DCS: Flaming Cliffs 3

[TΩKSYK]

Hello guys, I just bought some DLC's for DCS World.

I went with standalone Modules because if Im not mistaken they feature more detailed model and physics than of the ones in Flaming Cliffs 3, at least thats what I understand.

I realized only MiG-21Bis has clickable cockpit because I dont see "Fully interactive and animated cockpit. Use your mouse to control levers, switches and knobs!" in the key features of Su-25 and Su-27 which I thought they had clickable cockpit because they were standalone modules.

So I just wonder if those standalone Su-25 and Su-27 for DCS World are better detailed both in model and physics than of the ones in Flaming Cliffs 3?

What I want to know is if those standalone of Su-25 and Su-27 are the same flights from DCS: Flaming Cliffs 3 or they are more detailed than of the ones from Flaming Cliffs 3?

Thanks for your answers.

[El Jefe]

FC3 aircraft offered individually from FC3 are FC3 level simulation aircraft...they're the same, and offered as individual units for those not wanting to purchase FC3 in its entirety.

[kazereal]

Originally posted by Artaxeus:

I went with standalone Modules because if Im not mistaken they feature more detailed model and physics than of the ones in Flaming Cliffs 3, at least thats what I understand.

Owners of Flaming Cliffs 3 also get the upgrades. They are separated into own modules also same time when they are upgraded to give the choice for buying only few of them.

Flight model has been upgraded (so far) on F-15C, Su-27, A-10A and Su-25. Mig-29 and Su-33 flight model has not been upgraded yet.

Originally posted by Artaxeus:

I realized only MiG-21Bis has clickable cockpit because I dont see "Fully interactive and animated cockpit. Use your mouse to control levers, switches and knobs!" in the key features of Su-25 and Su-27 which I thought they had clickable cockpit because they were standalone modules.

Modules with DCS in the name have fully clickable and interactive cockpit: Mig-21, A-10C, Ka-50, Bf109, FW190, P-51, UH-1H, Mi-8, F-86.. Also the free TF-51 included with DCS has full ASM level interactive cockpit.

[TΩKSYK]

Originally posted by kazereal:

Owners of Flaming Cliffs 3 also get the upgrades. They are separated into own modules also same time when they are upgraded to give the choice for buying only few of them.

Flight model has been upgraded (so far) on F-15C, Su-27, A-10A and Su-25. Mig-29 and Su-33 flight model has not been upgraded yet.

Thank you guys for the info, Im still confused though because key features doesnt match with what each other.

This confused me.

New Key Features for the Flaming Cliffs Series:

(New Advanced Flights Models (AFM) for the A-10A and Su-25. New AFM coming for the Su-27 and F-15C coming soon! )

Key Features of the Su-27 for DCS World:

( A professional level flight model provides unmatched flight physics that allow you to truly feel what it's like to fly this amazing aircraft.)

Originally posted by kazereal:

Modules with DCS in the name have fully clickable and interactive cockpit: Mig-21, A-10C, Ka-50, Bf109, FW190, P-51, UH-1H, Mi-8, F-86.. Also the free TF-51 included with DCS has full ASM level interactive cockpit.

Hmm but both Su-25 and Su-27 has DCS in their name, Su-25 and Su-27

I found this thread which asks a similar question and a mod says standalone versions are a bit more detailed than whats included in FC3.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/223750/discussions/0/558748822123034991/

Originally posted by fearlessfrog:

EDIT: Updated product terms here:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=122801


Flaming Cliffs has been described as a 'medium fidelity' sim, versus a the 'high fidelity' of the A10C etc stand-alone. The biggest differences (just my personal opinion, just incase people get mad :D) for me are:

- FC is a 'survey sim' rather than a 'study sim', in that you spend most of your time not trying to figure out how to work the aircraft, but more how's the best way to *use* the aircraft's abilities. Example: the F15C you don't have the correct MFD buttons to press or all modes of the AN/APG-63 radar unit, but you do get to use the aircraft in a realistic tactical way against other fighters, i.e. you can do what you do in real-life, just not how exactly you'd do it in the cockpit. Conversely, the A10C, the cockpit and systems are modelled a lot closer to real-life (or whatever we want to pretend is realistic).

- FC includes quite a few varied modules for the price of one really detailed module. You can tune the AM radio of the Mi-8 Hip to hear the outer marker of an airfield, but would you rather just fly more jets?

- The simulation of the flight model of some of the FC3 jets is more basic, i.e. ground handling isn't as accurate, but that's something that is being updated over time, i.e. the A10A, Su25 are 'advanced', while the F15C and Su27/33 are awaiting an update. If you spend a lot of time at 40k strategizing on how to edge the doppler of a SA13, then in many ways it dosn't matter that you don't bounce properly on the runway when landing, versus the Huey needs to have a nice ground effect model when fully loaded..

- The stand-alone are all cockpit clickable, and six degree of freedom cockpit models, which if you have TrackIR allows you to have full XYZ axises for head movement. The FC set are being updated, but aren't all done yet.

So in summary, the FC set allows you to get fast movers without too much cockpit learning, but still offers lots to do in terms of strategy of how best to use and fulfill that role on the battlefield. Individually it's less detailed than an individual module, but not 'better or worse', just a different goal.

Hope that helps.

It will be great if a dev or a mod approve this.

[kazereal]

Originally posted by Artaxeus:

Originally posted by kazereal:

Owners of Flaming Cliffs 3 also get the upgrades. They are separated into own modules also same time when they are upgraded to give the choice for buying only few of them.

Flight model has been upgraded (so far) on F-15C, Su-27, A-10A and Su-25. Mig-29 and Su-33 flight model has not been upgraded yet.

Thank you guys for the info, Im still confused though because key features doesnt match with what each other.

This confused me.

New Key Features for the Flaming Cliffs Series:

(New Advanced Flights Models (AFM) for the A-10A and Su-25. New AFM coming for the Su-27 and F-15C coming soon! )

Key Features of the Su-27 for DCS World:

( A professional level flight model provides unmatched flight physics that allow you to truly feel what it's like to fly this amazing aircraft.)

Yes, it is really confusing now that the upgrades are still in progress.
Mig-29 in FC3 "bundle" is expected to have cockpit upgrades to 6DOF (full movement, not clickable yet). It's not confirmed yet but likely that they will get upgraded flight model also and be separated to own module as well.

Originally posted by kazereal:

Modules with DCS in the name have fully clickable and interactive cockpit: Mig-21, A-10C, Ka-50, Bf109, FW190, P-51, UH-1H, Mi-8, F-86.. Also the free TF-51 included with DCS has full ASM level interactive cockpit.

Hmm but both Su-25 and Su-27 has DCS in their name, Su-25 and Su-27

Argh.. They've changed the naming again.. My mistake, sorry about that.
F-15C, Su-27, A-10A and Su-25A modules used to be called something like "F-15C: Flaming Cliffs" and now it's just "F-15C for DCS World"..

I found this thread which asks a similar question and a mod says standalone versions are a bit more detailed than whats included in FC3.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/223750/discussions/0/558748822123034991/

Originally posted by fearlessfrog:

EDIT: Updated product terms here:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=122801


Flaming Cliffs has been described as a 'medium fidelity' sim, versus a the 'high fidelity' of the A10C etc stand-alone. The biggest differences (just my personal opinion, just incase people get mad :D) for me are:

...

Hope that helps.

It will be great if a dev or a mod approve this.

That part actually refers to FC3 *BEFORE* the flight model upgrades were released.. (Note posting time: 22.Feb) So it was correct at that time but has changed since then..

[kazereal]

Hmm.. My lengthy post was too complex for Steam to swallow?

Oh well, here's the relevant bits..

"Hmm but both Su-25 and Su-27 has DCS in their name, Su-25 and Su-27 "

They've changed the naming of those modules AGAIN - sorry about. I did not notice that.
"F-15C for DCS World" used to be called "F-15C Flaming Cliffs"..

"I found this thread which asks a similar question and a mod says standalone versions are a bit more detailed than whats included in FC3."

This actually refers to the FC3 bundle *BEFORE* they were upgraded and split into separate modules (note posting time: 22.Feb). So it was correct at the time and the FC3 bundle was just ported from old LockOn into DCS World.

Hope this helps..

(Yes, it is confusing for everyone at the moment.. Let's hope it improves..)

[TΩKSYK]

So the store page information is actually false or outdated and I could have had all the aircraft except Mig-21 Bis by purchasing Flaming Cliffs 3 only because there's no a single difference between Flaming Cliffs 3 and separately purchased standalone module like Su-25 and Su-27 *sigh*

If Im going to complete the list I have to get A-10A and F-15C and will end up not having Su-33, MiG-29A, MiG-29S and will actually pay more than of what FC3 is worth ;_;

[kazereal]

Even the official description of Flaming Cliffs 3 is outdated:
http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/products/flaming_cliffs_3/?PAGEN_2=2

It hasn't caught up with listing the flight model upgrades that are mentioned in changelogs.

[TΩKSYK]

I would love if a dev or a moderator confirm if Flaming Cliffs 3 Su-25, Su-27 and F-15C and separately purchased Su-25 and Su-27 and F-15C modules are exact the same aircraft with no single difference.

I still want to have one US aircraft (F-15) and dont want to buy that separately if its the same as the one in Flaming Cliffs 3.

So any dev or moderator can give us a good info about what is what because the store-page information is said to be out of date and I am confused what to buy and what to avoid.