Struggling with dogfighting Focke Wulf ( Dora )

[f.meussen]

I am trying to do the mission dogfighting against the mustang. ( P-51 )
Normally i am very good in dogfighting games but true that were more or less arcade games ( like afterburner or MS Combat flight Simulator )

But in DCS i suck at dogfighting. The moment i try to do a looping or make a sharp turn ( plane on his side and pulling the stick way back ) the plane is wiggling like grazy the pilot is panting like hell and sometimes the whole planes flip upside down within a eye blink.

I assume this happens because i try to fly the plane like an arcade thingy and that my turns are simply not possible in the "real" world.
What i also notice is that when i make a sharp turn my airspeed bleeds like crazy. ( 500 to 240 in just a few seconds )
Is this normal behaviour for an airplane?

Am i doing something wrong or is it just a question of learning to dogfight like it was for real?

[Hadji]

Yes it is normal to bleed off airspeed when turning hard. It is a matter of being smooth on the controls and learning your aircrafts limits. It's also a question of not destroying your engine as you push the envelope. So yeah, it's a bit like the real thing. Have a look at how this guy is doing it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKrjfxcVdIs

[fearlessfrog]

First off, I'm no ace dog-fighter, but here's my quick tips anyway :

- Speed (or more properly, Energy) is pretty much everything in a dogfight. It sounds like your turns are pulling too hard and you are going under the Dora's ideal 'corner speed'. Forget fighting for a bit and do a couple of 360's at various turn rates / radius / speeds until you get a nice feel for the 'buffeting' that happens with an aerodynamic stall turn. Experiment with the flaps at lower corner speed too. Remember that the Mustang has a pretty good turn rate, so a circle fight might not always work out for a Dora (in DCS at least). The Dora can be a good vertical boom/zoom fighter if it starts with the energy advantage.

- Dogfighting AI is in some ways more awkward than fighting another real person, in that its rules are predictable but it assumes it is flying almost perfectly. To get a nicer intro go into the mission in the mission editor and edit the opponent, i.e. give them 100% fuel and you 30% fuel, and alter the AI's skill level. It makes a big difference. This may seem like 'cheating' but it is a better way to work out what feels best for you, and then ramp up when you get more comfortable.

- If you have an energy advantage (i.e. you are higher/faster) then it becomes all about pursuit curves, and predicting where you want to be to take the shot. If you don't have an energy advantage, then (and this is where DCS is probably more real-life than most games) you should think defensive and work towards getting the advantage back (it's ok to 'run away' or 'extend' away).

[kazereal]

fearlessfrog and El Hadji already had most important things but below there's some more notes..

İlk olarak f.meussen tarafından gönderildi:

The moment i try to do a looping or make a sharp turn ( plane on his side and pulling the stick way back ) the plane is wiggling like grazy the pilot is panting like hell and sometimes the whole planes flip upside down within a eye blink.

I assume this happens because i try to fly the plane like an arcade thingy and that my turns are simply not possible in the "real" world.
What i also notice is that when i make a sharp turn my airspeed bleeds like crazy. ( 500 to 240 in just a few seconds )
Is this normal behaviour for an airplane?

Am i doing something wrong or is it just a question of learning to dogfight like it was for real?

You are both stalling and trying with too much G-forces. In some planes your pilot will blackout (lose conciusness) with too much G-forces or you may break the wings in some cases.

Also since you are stalling check if you have some payload attached (rockets, bombs..) and jettison those for a dogfight. Having additional weight does not help.

[Snips]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCFMX5z-ed4

I recommend you watch this video as well. It's framed in terms of the F-16, but the fundamental idea of "energy=life" holds true in ANY era of dogfighting.

[_oOo_]

İlk olarak f.meussen tarafından gönderildi:

The moment i try to do a looping or make a sharp turn ( plane on his side and pulling the stick way back ) the plane is wiggling like grazy the pilot is panting like hell and sometimes the whole planes flip upside down within a eye blink.

I assume this happens because i try to fly the plane like an arcade thingy and that my turns are simply not possible in the "real" world.

That is correct, ease back on the stick. Try to get used with the plane first. Try to get a feeling for how much you can pull the stick at different speeds without stalling the plane. Also, you can adjust the joystick response curves. You can even limit the inputs if you want to (so that when you pull the stick back at maximum the control is only pulled at say 60%).