Curvature experimentation and analasys

[Neumannen]

I have a Thrustmaster T16000m with a magnetic HALL sensor for the sick. For a while now I have been experimenting with diffrent deadzone, curvature and saturation options for it. I eventually settled for a deadzone of 5 and a curvature of 20 on the stick as a general setting on most aircraft and helicopters, however I have noticed that my flying gets better overall with no curvature set at all (linear stick + rudder) while keeping a deadzone of 5, this becomes especially evident in helicopter flights while transitioning from a hover to forward flight.

I know the manual says to use a curve whatever joystick you have, but I want to know, who ever you are and whatever you fly, what deadzone, saturation and curvature do you use? (and also what stick do you have?)

[kazereal]

Warthog. No deadzone, no curvature.

For some amount the input must be handled by flight model itself.

Deadzone is specifically for when joystick gives some degree of input when it is supposed to be centered: this isn't a problem in Warthog unless there is some problem with the stick sensors.

Curvature is similar that depending on joystick the analog input handling with a limited stick travel does translate well to simulation where stick travel might be very different in "ideal" model.

[=AiR FORCE=]

I always insist on some dead zone of at least 3-5 for even a perfectly tuned joystick as well as a curve of 20-30 even for all aircraft, especially AFM/PFM.

The MiG-21BiS, for example, has a table in the PDF manual on page 19, with the precise values to better simulate the response of this particular aircraft to your inputs.

No matter which joystick type you have, go to the DCS main screen, choose Options, select Controls
tab (first image) and then select MiG-21Bis as your aircraft type (1). Select Axis Commands (2) and
then select Pitch (3). Click on Axis Tune (4): a pop-up screen called Axis Tune Panel will open (second
image) enabling you to adjust axis curve and other settings.

And in general, with any joystick, a deadzone will allow for pilot/input error and curvature will provide precision near the center and the needed acceleration in the response towards the outsides, thus quicker response in a dog fight but a more precise one for landings, air to air refueling, and aiming with guns and other non guided HUD assisted aiming munitions.

So, what I'm saying is that it's not just for joystick "problems", misalignment, you can further work those out with saturation and user curve, in addition to the dead zone.

But each aircraft ideally must have some dead zone and curve, and those values, even with a perfect joystick, are needed to better simulate the input response for that particular aircraft, but for all in general, some dead zone and curve is not only helpful but essential.

I highly recommend trying to experiment with some and see for yourself. It's easier to manage the energies so to say as well.

[Neumannen]

One thing I dont like with a deadzone is the "cross effect" you get. For example, if I move my stick all the way toward me and all the way to the right and then slowly move it toward the leftmost posistion while still holding it back toward me, I will see the stick dead while crossing the center line so to speak, even though the stick is far from its center position, the deadzone paints itself as a cross over the entire area the stick has to move in, I understand this is good for potentiometer sensors but for me with a magnetic sensor this is only annoying and a feature to make the deadzone truely stay in the center should be introduced in my opinion. I have made a thread about this on the forums earlier but noone replied, it's a difficult phenomena to explain but if you know what I mean then you see the problem.

[kazereal]

Originally posted by Deciduous:

I will see the stick dead while crossing the center line so to speak

You have time to look at the stick while flying..? O_o

;D

[Neumannen]

Originally posted by kazereal:

Originally posted by Deciduous:

I will see the stick dead while crossing the center line so to speak

You have time to look at the stick while flying..? O_o

;D

Some of us to take calm, smooth flights while listening to classical music and drinking hot tea you know ;)

[kazereal]

Originally posted by Deciduous:

Originally posted by kazereal:

You have time to look at the stick while flying..? O_o

;D

Some of us to take calm, smooth flights while listening to classical music and drinking hot tea you know ;)

Earl Grey? ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2IJdfxWtPM

[Neumannen]

Earl Grey <3

[[GCA] King Apo]

TM Warthog no deadzones but for most modules curvature of 25-30 in pitch and 20-25 in bank/roll.

For my Saitek Pro Flight Rudders a deadzone of 5-10 (depending on module) plus for some modules I 'disarm' the maximum rudder a bit so that I can make more fine adjustments.

Honestly I am never happy with rudder axis setting, any advice here? (Big Deadzone because they are 2nd hand and are not as precise anymore...)

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=413778086

[kazereal]

Many rudder pedals are not good when they are new so you are not missing much..

Unless you really invest in proper pedals like MFG Crosswind or Slaw Device you won't get around this problem in pedals.

[Frostregen]

Originally posted by Deciduous:

the deadzone paints itself as a cross over the entire area the stick has to move in

Deadzone should only be considered in a square area around the center. If it is this (cross) way, this is a bug. (I know, because I coded the same mistake once...)

For helicopters you do not want a deadzone at all. You will do small corrections all the time anyway.
Using any curvate kills my hovering skills, so I avoid those also.

I use 2 joysticks regularly (helo):

1. Cheap T. Hotas X - Sensitivity 80, no deadzone, no curvature. (Sensitivity is down due to bad precision otherwise). This stick must be used with pilot-trim anyway, so this is acceptable.

2. Logitech G940 - Sensitivity 100, no deadzone, no curvature. Since this is a force feedback joystick, you do not need pilot trim. (e.g. not re-centering - the stick just stays where you moved it due to FFB)

(You may want to differ between helo and plane though.)

[HuesudO_spn]

I have a G940, and while force feedback is very nice, there is a problem.

The stick has a slop of about one centimeter from the center (even after you move that center with the trim). I believe this is a problem with DCS, since the motors can give a friction force (not available in DCS) no matter where the stick is, indicating that they can reach it anywhere.

Also, aircraft sticks have a lot more play in real life than the G940 stick, so a small curve for small, precise movements could be desirable.

The problem is that, while the physical center of the stick can be changed with the trim, neither the dead zone or the curve centers follow it.
This means that the stick ends up being ultra sensitive to even the slightest tic in the hand, and keeping the hand perfectly steady all the time to fly straight and level is tiring.

[Frostregen]

This is what I meant with "differ between helo and plane", and even between different helo's. You need those small corrections all the time in a helicopter. There is no time where you just keep your hand steady. (Ok, this might be more important while flying a Huey than any other helicopter - If you keep the stick steady it will tilt into left/right curve sooner or later. And / or up/down...)

The only time where I leave the stick is while using co-pilots gunsight with autopilot enabled.

[kazereal]

Refueling from tanker is another case where you really need small corrections.