No F-22 Raptor?

[_Soj_]

Added to wishlist..........

[kazereal]

That is still highly classified so you'll have to wait maybe ten years or so.

[_Soj_]

Yeah, I know about the brainwave-linked avionics (same as the F-117a).

Can't they just "wing it"? (pun intended)

[kazereal]

This wouldn't be DCS if they guessed or faked things..

[_Soj_]

Originally posted by kazereal:

This wouldn't be DCS if they guessed or faked things..

k, gotcha...

[Chameleon_Silk]

I see no reason they couldnt add AI versions of it though, and then just base it off SFM with the values that are known.

choice is good.

[Tatsue]

The issue there though is: how do you model it as an adversary as far as you detecting it on radar goes? Yes, you will detect it - but at which ranges and aspects etcetera? How much of a difference to this does opening weapon bays do?

Even in the AI adversary role, there is so much that is simply not known to any amount of approximation. And if not giving it the Stealth characteristics... what purpose is there to include it?

That said, it could be argued that people are free to not include them in their missions, if they disagree with the numbers. But sadly we have seen that argument fail so many times (like the "why P-51?" or "why F-86" or "why MiG-21" etc etc...). :P

[Chameleon_Silk]

yea but people who hate choice are morons lol

but yea i hear ya there would still be a lot of guesswork since no one knows how those passive sensors even work :P

but theres stuff like F-117A in the game surely a lot of that is unknowns as well.

looking at pic with F-117 bomb bay open --- holy crap no wonder 1 got shot down its like a big neon sign saying LOOK AT ME!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/F-117A_GBU-28.JPEG

[Tatsue]

Yes, but they are easier to work with since there are known engagement scenarios where the F-117A was involved. So "educated guesses" can be made.

For the F-22... we don't have even that.

[Tatsue]

(Well, the one that was shot down was actually nailed by an optically guided missile - the radar controls were overridden after initial detection, and the SAM site had been placed in "ambush" using other sources for knowing that it was LIKELY coming that way, and then managing to time a lucky detection at very close proximity. It was not shot down with doors open.)

[_Soj_]

Tatsue: You seem knowledgeable.

Are you familiar with the "Biefeld–Brown effect[www.google.com]"?

[Chameleon_Silk]

"initial detection"

I wonder how it was detected in the first place, I find it ironic that the story from the pilot that got shot down was that he had just done an attack run and opened his bomb bay and was shot down egressing.

there was lots of reasons that went bad, as you said on ambush, they flew the same route over and over etc, I just don't think the bomb bay sail is doing the stealth any favors.

also ironic is how the F-22 doors have the jigsaw shape on the ends and is about half as protruding, lessons learned perhaps.

[=AiR FORCE=]

Originally posted by Tatsue:

(Well, the one that was shot down was actually nailed by an optically guided missile - the radar controls were overridden after initial detection

The S-125 SA-3 did not get an optical capability until the Pechora-2M upgrade.
The F-117 was shot down with radar and CLOS guidance.
The missile's proximity fuse was of a basic command guided type.
Call it luck or the SAM Site commander's and his crew's skills, it was a radar detection, tracking and a shoot down of a stealth aircraft, not an optical one. It was also at night.

[Chameleon_Silk]

theres so many different theorys on what happened, one this is for sure though, they knew F-117's were operating in that area and they knew that they were flying the same route night in and night out, that eliminates a lot of the luck, optical radar or IR matters little when you make it easy :P

regardless i still stand by my OMG that bomb door is a wind sail and cant be good for the stealth aspect :P

also I should be careful with the I wonder how it was detected in first place comment, low observability doesn't mean invisible and this incident highlights that fact.

I would just like raptors in it for eye candy and for adding to missions, seldom see F-117's used in a mission but you could make some nice atmospheric missions by using such aircraft.

[=AiR FORCE=]

Zoltan Dani, the commander of the S-125 (SA-3) has had multiple interviews.
So, it's no theory that they were using Long Wavelengths mode allowing them to detect the aircraft at roughly 50km for under 20 secs to create a track of it's movement, then turned it off, timed and turned it back on to begin locking and engaging from ~15km, which falls within this SAM's specifications.

I made a quick mission with S-125 and F-117 and the SAM performs a bit worse, launching at 10km, but the bomb bays were closed. I placed some units in hopes it would attempt to bomb them, but it didn't.

It can only be locked about that distance with an air radar also.
I say DCS has a very good approximation of its stealth properties.
And yes, missions involving the Nighthawk are quite interesting.

Just a quick one, take a look:
http://www.filedropper.com/s-125vsf-117

[Sarge]

Have seen the same interviews stating that they were using the wavelengths and noticing a blank spot in the "picture". Very good commander and crew. Had them changing locations regularly so the F-117s were caught by suprise on their locations. Saw the interviews on Youtube. Well worth a watch.