Flying the AH-64D solo - good idea or not?

[Flying Cadet Mad]

I want to start out flying the AH-64D module but am quite a bit worried as it is supposed to be a two-person helicopter to be used the best way.
When going in solo, is it better to go as the pilot or the gunner?

[Emme]

You can do both by just switching the seats while flying. George A.I. will take the role as Pilot or Gunner then. You then are able to give commands to George via an Interface.

Of course George as a Pilot or Gunner is not as effective as a real person taking that role and the commands are rather rudimentary at this current moment. But it will def work out.

Besides that the module and A.I. are still under developement, so improvements still to come.

[DragonWhite4Gulf]

I fly solo without even needing to switch seats. I have George commands set on my throttle thumb hat switch. You can tell George to switch weapons lock targets and cycle through them. Change laser settings and to fire cease fire. If you have TrackIR the cannon is awesome as it follows your head movement.

[XIII]

Mb try the 2 week trial? That way you can test if you like the heli solo, if thats what youre asking for.

[Flying Cadet Mad]

I already bought it when it was released. Just never found the time to really get into it.
And I am kind of worried that I invest a lot of time only to find out that flying solo is too far from ideal.
Certainly the AI is no human but there is something as "more than acceptable" and "forget it, hardly useful".

[XIII]

Originally posted by Flying Cadet Mad:

I already bought it when it was released. Just never found the time to really get into it.
And I am kind of worried that I invest a lot of time only to find out that flying solo is too far from ideal.
Certainly the AI is no human but there is something as "more than acceptable" and "forget it, hardly useful".

Ah, I see. But tbh, I guess theres not much you can do except try it then. I mean, at worst you play it 10 hours and decide its not worth it? Thats something you learned, too.

Cant talk about the Apache, but ive since yesterday given the F14 trial a go, to see how I like the AI RIO. Theres a bunch of stuff to learn, but it really doesnt seem so complicated that it takes huge time investment.

As much as the Jester AI is maybe not perfect, it still gives you capabilities and workflows that are quite unique. He can spot for you, tell you things that you normally miss, and take off manual workloads.
Its also just an interesting experience to have this dude behind you clacking away and giving you callouts during the flight, compard to eg an F18. I like that they even gave him a sense of humor.

If the Apache is like that, then its defo worth a try.

[Jel]

Only thing that bothers me so far when flying solo is George AI Gunner is able to identify (or even SEE) ground target way early. I doubt that any human can do that so i kind of feel cheating when not having a human cpg :)
But yet again, that´s just my 10 cent.

[Perfect Info]

I have not used the Apache module, but I have used the Mi-24 module.

The Mi-24 copilot AI is effective as a means to use the weapons that are completely reliant on the copilot. The interface to acquire, select, and engage targets with the co-pilot SACLOS weapons is very satisfying with that workflow. So a solid "A" on accomplishing that level of functionality.

My complaint would be that other than a few threat-related call-outs, the co-pilot AI is not doing much more. What I would expect a human to do in that seat are things like talk-on to targets using the periscope (I suppose you can engage the SACLOS, see where the cursor ends up, and then switch off it back to rockets), speed/dive angle/effective range monitoring during weapons runs (manual rocket sighting), looking up entries in the weapon trajectory tables for me, etc... Yes, some of these are difficult or impossible to do with AI as we understand it today (e.g. a realistic talk-on referencing visual cues on screen). But there are others that would be (e.g. press a button to "lock" speed and dive angle, and then get call outs "little high, little fast" the way the carrier AI does), or could be done with abstractions (e.g. instead of a talk-on, give a brief visual ping on screen with a voice line).

Again, I have not used the Apache module. But I suspect, given the same developer and largely the same code base for the two AI's, that the goals for the Apache AI are largely similar: the AI is probably aiming to be a functional tool that allows for one person to employ all the systems and functions absolutely requiring the co-pilot, but minimal beyond that. "Make it possible to fly an Apache with a single human."

I think this is distinct from what Heatblur is doing with Jester AI, where they seem to have aimed a bit higher than that are trying to provide as much support for the pilot as possible given the limitations of AI as we have it today.

[XIII]

Originally posted by Jel:

Only thing that bothers me so far when flying solo is George AI Gunner is able to identify (or even SEE) ground target way early. I doubt that any human can do that so i kind of feel cheating when not having a human cpg :)
But yet again, that´s just my 10 cent.

To be fair, thats probably not the AIs fault, its probably ore part of a general issue with DCS AI being omnipotent^^

And AI vehicles are also way too good at shooting down aircraft, so its not really unfair.

Originally posted by Perfect Info:

My complaint would be that other than a few threat-related call-outs, the co-pilot AI is not doing much more. What I would expect a human to do in that seat are things like talk-on to targets using the periscope (I suppose you can engage the SACLOS, see where the cursor ends up, and then switch off it back to rockets), speed/dive angle/effective range monitoring during weapons runs (manual rocket sighting), looking up entries in the weapon trajectory tables for me, etc... Yes, some of these are difficult or impossible to do with AI as we understand it today (e.g. a realistic talk-on referencing visual cues on screen). But there are others that would be (e.g. press a button to "lock" speed and dive angle, and then get call outs "little high, little fast" the way the carrier AI does), or could be done with abstractions (e.g. instead of a talk-on, give a brief visual ping on screen with a voice line).

Tbh I really like the idea of having the AI doing some of the "busywork" if you want it to. Like do the math on navigation, fuel usage, remind me about efficient speeds, do weapon loadout sighting etc.

Would actually make me prefer having a copilot in some situations, compared to a solo flier.

I guess the F18 is nice because its systems actually do a lot of that math for you. Im really curious about the F4 and its jester 2 AI.

[Flying Cadet Mad]

Sound like a lot of valid points to go and give it a try.
Now I just have to overcome the laziness.

Thx to everyone for the replies

[Baba Bomba]

No problem to fly AH64D alone.
Once you set the controls, you,ll fly that thing almost with your eyes closed so easy.
It,s a good choice to buy the Apache, really having fun with it.

[Delta Dagger]

Honestly, George does ok most of the time. When he doesn't you just switch to CPG and do it yourself.

The Apache is weird to learn, but once it clicks? It's super intuitive.

[XIII]

Im continueing to fly the F14 and Im surprised how little jester bothers me, and how much I even enjoy aspects of having a capable AI autopilot. I actually like his commentary.

It might be nice to more indepths experience the complex systems control, but even flying the aircraft is such a handful that its probably near impossible to do so in combat. Even an F18 puts a lot of workload onto you, and thats a computer aircraft.

AIs arent that bad if they are well done.

[XIII]

Originally posted by Flying Cadet Mad:

Sound like a lot of valid points to go and give it a try.
Now I just have to overcome the laziness.

Thx to everyone for the replies

Np. Btw, probably doesnt matter since you got the Apache already, but had you considered the Black Shark KA-50? Its a fairly modern russian helicopter, similar to Apache, but made to be purely piloted solo.

[Flying Cadet Mad]

I have the Blackshark 2 in my library, got it in a sale, I guess. Hardly ever played it :-(.
Now there is even the upgrade to 3 available.
Damn my laziness.

[XIII]

Originally posted by Flying Cadet Mad:

I have the Blackshark 2 in my library, got it in a sale, I guess. Hardly ever played it :-(.
Now there is even the upgrade to 3 available.
Damn my laziness.

Eh, games arent a job, if you dont feel like it, then dont need to play it^^

But yeh, if you dont like the Apache because of the copilot, the Black Shark would be a good alternative.