Help with the F-86

[Dspan_000]

I have had enough with this ♥♥♥♥ and I need help. When I am fighting MiG-15's I try to out turn them and when I attempt this my plane shakes. Pull any harder my plane gives and it goes into a death spiral WAY above stall speed and I can never pull out of this and I eject. I need help getting those damn MiG's!!!!

[fearlessfrog]

Well, it is hard. General tips:

- The Sabre has energy while the MiG-15 has the turn (generally speaking). If you get into a turn fight on the horizontal then it's going to be hard work. If you extend from the fight and engage back in with greater height/speed then it'll help. Boom n Zoom baby.

- The AI has a simple flight model and the MiG-15 an amazingly robust ability to soak damage from the .50 cal. From a rear aspect it seems to be too hard to shoot down. To even things up it is worth editing your missions to lower the AI skill level, or at least fill them full of fuel while you lower your own fuel levels. It's not cheating, it's balancing

- Here's a nice thread of using the A4 sight, even with a bit of GLOC issue:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=128683

Hope that helps.

[jester]

Originally posted by fearlessfrog:

Well, it is hard. General tips:

- The Sabre has energy while the MiG-15 has the turn (generally speaking). If you get into a turn fight on the horizontal then it's going to be hard work. If you extend from the fight and engage back in with greater height/speed then it'll help. Boom n Zoom baby.

- The AI has a simple flight model and the MiG-15 an amazingly robust ability to soak damage from the .50 cal. From a rear aspect it seems to be too hard to shoot down. To even things up it is worth editing your missions to lower the AI skill level, or at least fill them full of fuel while you lower your own fuel levels. It's not cheating, it's balancing :D:

- Here's a nice thread of using the A4 sight, even with a bit of GLOC issue:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=128683

Hope that helps.

It's very hard to extend away and above a Mig-15. They have a much superior rate of climb and can easily chase you into the vertical while simultaneously closing the gap.


The Mig-15 has a very good intial turn, but the large stabilizer dragging through the air behind it causes it to struggle in a sustained turn. The Mig pilot usually has to either back off the stick at that point, or face losing control. As a Sabre pilot, you can continue your nice sustained turn fairly easily.

Another tactic to pull even tighter turns in the Sabre that real Sabre pilots used to use is to extend your speedbrakes as you start your turn. IIRC the angle of the airbrakes in the Sabre gives it a "tail-heavy" feel and allows you to pull an even tighter turn than without them. I have a PDF somewhere describing the different tactics of Sabre pilots, and there was a graph that shows the difference in turn radius at like 400 knots both with and without speedbrakes out. I'll try to find it and share it with you, it's a great read.

A lot of the above is based on my own experience and success in the Sabre, on multiplayer. Add me on steam, and I'll setup a private server and I can show you some of these tactics if you'd like.

[Dspan_000]

Thank you two for telling me this

[jester]

Originally posted by Dspan_000:

Thank you two for telling me this

No worries. Also, look up the pdf "No Guts, No Glory". It was written in the era of the Sabre I believe. It covers a lot of good, basic information, from offensive attacking, to defending, to being a wingman.

Plus the pictures are awesome to look at.

[Chameleon_Silk]

MiG-15 seems to whoop the sabre, history says quite the opposite (depends on who you ask) personally I think the sabre is a nice aircraft but in DCS the MiG-15 outclasses it in almost every regard.

even the F-86 AI seems to not be able to keep its speed up while the MiG-15 flies circles around it, I refuse to believe the modelling on the F-86 is correct, either that or the MiG-15 is way to generous with its FM.

because of this I won't ever suggest anyone pick up the F-86..... its just not right, once the AI is addressed and the FM tweaked (which may never occur) then I may suggest it.

its not that I don't like the plane, quite the opposite but its like telling someone to fly a paper airplane against a BF109..... its just gonna be uphill battle.

even in tacviews you can see the sabre bleeds speed off of everything it does, the only thing it does better then a MiG-15 is dive, which you will be doign a lot of to try and keep speed up so you can run away.

I'm not saying an ace F-86 can't shoot down an MiG-15 but simply that with 2 aces, the sabre ace would need a miracle.

sorry if I wasn't on topic, just simply stating this because you are not alone in wondering whats up with the F-86.

[Dspan_000]

Originally posted by twitch.tv/land_force:

MiG-15 seems to whoop the sabre, history says quite the opposite (depends on who you ask) personally I think the sabre is a nice aircraft but in DCS the MiG-15 outclasses it in almost every regard.

even the F-86 AI seems to not be able to keep its speed up while the MiG-15 flies circles around it, I refuse to believe the modelling on the F-86 is correct, either that or the MiG-15 is way to generous with its FM.

because of this I won't ever suggest anyone pick up the F-86..... its just not right, once the AI is addressed and the FM tweaked (which may never occur) then I may suggest it.

its not that I don't like the plane, quite the opposite but its like telling someone to fly a paper airplane against a BF109..... its just gonna be uphill battle.

even in tacviews you can see the sabre bleeds speed off of everything it does, the only thing it does better then a MiG-15 is dive, which you will be doign a lot of to try and keep speed up so you can run away.

I'm not saying an ace F-86 can't shoot down an MiG-15 but simply that with 2 aces, the sabre ace would need a miracle.

sorry if I wasn't on topic, just simply stating this because you are not alone in wondering whats up with the F-86.

Yeah I know what you mean because I can get the MiG-15BiS to smoke white and black but there is the one thing that ♥♥♥♥♥♥ me up. Such as, he goes nose diving up wards, I follow, he is going 75, stalls, i still go up at about 115, he falls and I chase and go into a death spiral and cannot pull out of it or he flips around and gets me. If I don't follow he stalls, flips around and follow and when this happens its rinse and repeat. . .

[Dspan_000]

You also know the MiG-15BiS is OP when I can beat MiG-21BiS with the F-86 when I can't beat the 15 with the same caft (MiG21-BiS took 2 trys)

[jester]

Originally posted by Dspan_000:

You also know the MiG-15BiS is OP when I can beat MiG-21BiS with the F-86 when I can't beat the 15 with the same caft (MiG21-BiS took 2 trys)

I can beat the Mig-15 and Sabre both in the 109.

I just got out of a mission I've been working on for Sabres and Migs, and shot down 4 Migs myself. And I mean full blown shot a wing off. I can help you if you want. Add me on steam.

[NotJesus42]

I cant get the f-86 to work at all

[Hadji]

How do you mean? "Not at all" seems kind of strange since it works well for most people.

[Dspan_000]

This post is a year old . . . I forgot about it then I get a notification. . . lol

[kazereal]

Originally posted by smithiem0220:

I cant get the f-86 to work at all

You are not really giving any information what kind of problem you are having..
Is it installation problem? Activation? Starting up? Control bindings?

[Chameleon_Silk]

why revive this paticular thread? just make a new one outlining your issues with the F-86.....