Bf-109 or Spitfire?

[Hippothing]

In the game, which is more fun, which is a better simulation, which just 'feels' good to fly etc?

Plus, I've heard on these forums that the FW-190 Dora is an absolute nightmare to fly. Is that really true?

Thanks!

[Troll Norris]

Hi. No aircraft is nightmare to fly. You just have to know how to use it.

[Sandhill]

scotch or bourbon?

[startrekmike]

In terms of simulation quality, they are both quite high quality (since they are made by the same developer). At the moment, all the WWII stuff in DCS is on equal ground in that regard. When it comes to what "just feels good to fly"? Since they are all equally well simulated, what feels "good to fly" will depend entirely on your own preferences. Everyone will have different answers for this one based on their own specific biases so you gotta figure that one out on your own as well.

Regarding the Dora being a "absolute nightmare to fly" according to the forums. I think this a great opportunity to consider that one really should take what people say about how "hard to learn" or "difficult to fly" something is on forums with a gigantic pile of salt. As with all hardcore simulations (racing, flying, etc). There are going to be people who spend a lot more time on forums talking about how difficult something is to learn/handle than they spend actually cracking open a manual and taking things step by step.

This is not to say that all DCS modules are easy to learn and fly. What I am saying is that if one willing to embrace and enjoy the learning process, they will not have a big problem learning anything in DCS. When I say "embrace and enjoy the learning process", I mean not trying to find shortcuts around it via incomplete or generally vague youtube tutorials. I mean opening up the manuals and going through them one step at a time. It sounds like a lot of work and it sounds like it will take forever but it really isn't and it really doesn't. The manuals for DCS modules are laid out for beginners. They are set up so that you can go through them one step at a time and at your own pace.

I am sorry for harping on this so hard but the DCS community tends to (at least on average) actively try to discourage new players from using the manuals and I can't really see any logical reason why that is. To put it another way. I am trying to encourage you to not fall into the trap where you spend a long time trying to find shortcuts around a learning process that really isn't all that time consuming. It is like guitarists who spend years trying to find shortcuts around two weeks worth of learning music theory, you know?

For the WWII aircraft specifically, they are generally pretty light on systems so the flying itself tends to be the most demanding part. If you open the manuals and go through the various start-up, take-off, landing, and other checklists, you should be able to get going pretty readily. It will take some practice but a steady, light touch on the controls and attention paid to proper trim settings will help a lot.

[FireShark]

I'm a relative newb to DCS. I have both. Generally I enjoy the 109 more, but the Spit is still a great bird.

They are both a b**ch to get off the ground and land, but it's doable if you have rudder pedals. I wouldn't recommend them if you are using a twist axis unless you are very patient or very experienced.

The 109 is very easy to fly once you are in the air, with the exception of it being prone to stalls when going straight up or certain inverted maneuvers. I'm sure a better pilot than me can get around that. Engine management is very easy otherwise.

The Spit is quite a touchy and fussy bird, but it's very lively and probably has the most pure feeling of flying I've had in DCS. If you want to master this plane, I'd say it worth it, but be prepared for long hours of training if you actually want to dogfight in it. Again, I'm new to DCS. A sim pro could probably learn all this stuff much faster than me.

For takeoff on the Spit, I have developed my own method which is to jam the throttle forward 90%, create rudder authority and go very light on the rudder. I do not mess with trim at all. It's all about minimizing ground roll distance. The sooner you get it off the ground, the better.
The Spit needs more engine management in the air. I generally leave the RPMs around 2750 and don't touch it much until landing. I have not flown any long missions yet, so this could be problematic.

I've been in the process of building my sim rig, the last part is arriving today. Hopefully I'll get a lot more stick time with these soon.

[Troll Norris]

Spitfire is one of the easiest to fly. It has very good flight control surfaces. One of the most effective, especially the rudder. It has very good climb rate, turn rate. Its downside is relatively low horisontal speed and bad view caused by the nose and low sitting position.

109 has very small flight control surfaces. Yes, it is fast and highly maneuverable at low speeds, but not in high speeds. Due to its design it is difficult to turn in high speeds with 109.

IMO the most difficult to fly is P-47. There is too much workload caused by engine management. P-47 does not have automatic cooling system which increases a workload quite a lot. But P-47 is one of the fastest WWII aircrafts in DCS (maybe the fastest one). Also it has great altitude range. Very good for shooting down bombers.

[shadowgravy]

They are about even in my opinion. The Spitfire has slightly better ground handling but I prefer the BF 109 in flight. Wait a couple of days when you can try both out for free.

[Hippothing]

Thanks for the replies!

For now, I have the Spitfire. It reminds me a bit of the MiG-21 - really annoying to get into the air but eventually it settles down.

The Spitfire seems to twist to the left on take-off. I assume that is because of the rotation of the propeller. Should you back off the throttle or roll to the right? I've no idea, this is my first propeller aircraft in DCS...

[FireShark]

Go 90% throttle and get off the ground ASAP. Do not set any trim during takeoff as it will just cause you to overcorrect and topple over. You can adjust rudder trim in the air to correct for the P-factor.

[Sandhill]

Originally posted by RogertheRubbish:

Thanks for the replies!
The Spitfire seems to twist to the left on take-off. I assume that is because of the rotation of the propeller. Should you back off the throttle or roll to the right? I've no idea, this is my first propeller aircraft in DCS...

Proper technique varies a bit by aircraft, most generally a slow application of throttle so that you gain some rudder authority before the effects of the propeller become too extreme is the basic approach. A good exploration of the subject:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsMEJ-N_zoE&list=PLnyigzFtHeNqmQMVhq1Shl972CPX4O-0B&index=3

[Troll Norris]

Here is the video of the "nightmare to fly" which I've made. Pitty the YTB servers are extremly slow this time, so the WQHD version is not available yet. (7 hours from upload and still not processed) You can see it flies like on the rail, even in the british weather. Also it is damn difficult to overheat it.
https://youtu.be/liKzzSXAsG4

And about the propeller aerodynamics: https://youtu.be/0bP2MH3LqvI

[dan]

Free trials coming up. Try em out

[Troll Norris]

Looks like you never tried to fly it. And you even did not check the video I've posted. Also the second video is not reaction to You but to Sandhill's post. And one more note. The Me 109 was originally the racing special. It made the speed record in 1937 610,95 km/h

[Major Problem]

Personally i hate the FM of the Spitfire in DCS, it can do really weird things when you push the envelope. I have not flown the 109.

[startrekmike]

Originally posted by Major Problem:

Personally i hate the FM of the Spitfire in DCS, it can do really weird things when you push the envelope. I have not flown the 109.

Compared to other sims or actual documentation?

[Sandhill]

Originally posted by razoleg (The Cunning Fox):

Why would you post a video about propeller dynamics?

Perhaps because the OP, whose thread this is, after all, asked for an explanation in post #8, and so we provided a couple.