New HOTAS recommendations

[WalkingFlask]

I’m looking to upgrade from the Thrustmaster TC1600M + TWS + Rudder HOTAS.
I’m thinking of the Vipril Constellation Alpha Prime + WarBRD-D base + T50CM3 HOTAS (retaining the Thrustmaster rudder pedals for the interim)

It’s a desktop setup, and almost exclusively for the F/A18c in DCS.

Putting price to one side and only considering programmability and operational effectiveness, is this the best option for a F/A18c DCS Desktop setup?

[Undead Rufus]

Unless you want a "replica" version of the F/A-18 controls (e.g. Winwing), you simply can't go wrong with a Virpil rig. I use the Constellation Alpha-R with a WarBRD base, and it's great for everything.

[Gunfreak]

Originally posted by WalkingFlask:

I’m looking to upgrade from the Thrustmaster TC1600M + TWS + Rudder HOTAS.
I’m thinking of the Vipril Constellation Alpha Prime + WarBRD-D base + T50CM3 HOTAS (retaining the Thrustmaster rudder pedals for the interim)

It’s a desktop setup, and almost exclusively for the F/A18c in DCS.

Putting price to one side and only considering programmability and operational effectiveness, is this the best option for a F/A18c DCS Desktop setup?

I use the virpil constellation. But not happy with it. So I just bought Thrustmaster f18 grip.
I find the virpil to not be very good with the hats. Oversensitive. So if I try and trim up. I'll also accidentally trim right wing down etc. Also don't like the space sim ascetics.

I much preferred my Winwing F18 grip, sadly that isn't compatible with my brunner force feedback base. Only virpil and Thrustmaster are compatible.

The virpil bases seem fine, not any better than Winwing, but not any worse either.
I haven't tried any virpil throttles, so can't speak to those but I have two Winwing throttles and they are great.

[WalkingFlask]

Originally posted by Undead Rufus:

Unless you want a "replica" version of the F/A-18 controls (e.g. Winwing), you simply can't go wrong with a Virpil rig. I use the Constellation Alpha-R with a WarBRD base, and it's great for everything.

Thanks. I heard about the Winwing F18c HOTAS, but sensed that the Virpil throttle wouldn’t be easier to navigate in VR, and that the bespoke F18 nature of the Winwing F18 would be mainly lost in VR use - I could be wrong though.

Good to hear you’ve been enjoying the Virpil system.

[WalkingFlask]

Originally posted by Gunfreak:

Originally posted by WalkingFlask:

I’m looking to upgrade from the Thrustmaster TC1600M + TWS + Rudder HOTAS.
I’m thinking of the Vipril Constellation Alpha Prime + WarBRD-D base + T50CM3 HOTAS (retaining the Thrustmaster rudder pedals for the interim)

It’s a desktop setup, and almost exclusively for the F/A18c in DCS.

Putting price to one side and only considering programmability and operational effectiveness, is this the best option for a F/A18c DCS Desktop setup?

I use the virpil constellation. But not happy with it. So I just bought Thrustmaster f18 grip.
I find the virpil to not be very good with the hats. Oversensitive. So if I try and trim up. I'll also accidentally trim right wing down etc. Also don't like the space sim ascetics.

I much preferred my Winwing F18 grip, sadly that isn't compatible with my brunner force feedback base. Only virpil and Thrustmaster are compatible.

The virpil bases seem fine, not any better than Winwing, but not any worse either.
I haven't tried any virpil throttles, so can't speak to those but I have two Winwing throttles and they are great.

Ahh… I don’t like the sound of mis-activation from the hats. That’s a concern.

I’m good with the aesthetic as that’s subjective, but I’m keen that my next HOTAS works great in VR (blind to the controls)

[Troll Norris]

I bought T50 CM2 grip as a replacement for VPC Mongoos T-50 CM1 Grip and HOTAS Warthog grip. The fact that all positioning wheels also have a 5th button makes it extremely versatile.
The Moongoos and WarBRD bases are one of the best in the market. I think the only better base is VPforce Rhino.

[startrekmike]

Originally posted by WalkingFlask:

I’m looking to upgrade from the Thrustmaster TC1600M + TWS + Rudder HOTAS.
I’m thinking of the Vipril Constellation Alpha Prime + WarBRD-D base + T50CM3 HOTAS (retaining the Thrustmaster rudder pedals for the interim)

It’s a desktop setup, and almost exclusively for the F/A18c in DCS.

Putting price to one side and only considering programmability and operational effectiveness, is this the best option for a F/A18c DCS Desktop setup?

I have been using a full Virpil HOTAS setup for a good while now (T50CM2 grip/Base and CM3 throttle) and it has been a wonderful experience. The throttle is precise, easily adjusted, and very versatile with its abundance of hats and other controls. The stick grip is comfortable and equally as versatile (I haven't had any issues with hats at all on it).

Because the stick and throttle have so many controls, it will be useful for any DCS module. I have put a lot of hours into the Hornet using that setup and have had no issues binding what I want and getting the functionality required.

One thing I do feel is important to point out. Once you get into the high-end HOTAS market, you are going to find sticks that are pretty much designed for mounted use (rather than just resting on the desktop). The Virpil stick tends to sit a bit higher and it will not only be more comfortable but also more ergonomic to get a set of desk mounts. The ones that Virpil makes are a fair price (unlike most on the market) and will hold up really well.

[-OrLoK- Слава Україн]

I love my virpil set. I *only* fly in VR, not had any issues finding buttons :)

[WalkingFlask]

Originally posted by startrekmike:

Originally posted by WalkingFlask:

I’m looking to upgrade from the Thrustmaster TC1600M + TWS + Rudder HOTAS.
I’m thinking of the Vipril Constellation Alpha Prime + WarBRD-D base + T50CM3 HOTAS (retaining the Thrustmaster rudder pedals for the interim)

It’s a desktop setup, and almost exclusively for the F/A18c in DCS.

Putting price to one side and only considering programmability and operational effectiveness, is this the best option for a F/A18c DCS Desktop setup?

I have been using a full Virpil HOTAS setup for a good while now (T50CM2 grip/Base and CM3 throttle) and it has been a wonderful experience. The throttle is precise, easily adjusted, and very versatile with its abundance of hats and other controls. The stick grip is comfortable and equally as versatile (I haven't had any issues with hats at all on it).

Because the stick and throttle have so many controls, it will be useful for any DCS module. I have put a lot of hours into the Hornet using that setup and have had no issues binding what I want and getting the functionality required.

One thing I do feel is important to point out. Once you get into the high-end HOTAS market, you are going to find sticks that are pretty much designed for mounted use (rather than just resting on the desktop). The Virpil stick tends to sit a bit higher and it will not only be more comfortable but also more ergonomic to get a set of desk mounts. The ones that Virpil makes are a fair price (unlike most on the market) and will hold up really well.

Thanks, that’s another +1 for the Virpil system then. I appreciate these things are always going to be somewhat subjective.

I’ve already got a full GT Omega Prime profile sim rig in the man cave, but it’s setup for iRacing. I really can’t fit a second rig in there for flight sims (well not in this current house anyway), so I’ll have to make do with a desktop setup for the time being.

I appreciate the heads up and will look at the desk clamp adapters.

[startrekmike]

Originally posted by WalkingFlask:

Originally posted by startrekmike:

I have been using a full Virpil HOTAS setup for a good while now (T50CM2 grip/Base and CM3 throttle) and it has been a wonderful experience. The throttle is precise, easily adjusted, and very versatile with its abundance of hats and other controls. The stick grip is comfortable and equally as versatile (I haven't had any issues with hats at all on it).

Because the stick and throttle have so many controls, it will be useful for any DCS module. I have put a lot of hours into the Hornet using that setup and have had no issues binding what I want and getting the functionality required.

One thing I do feel is important to point out. Once you get into the high-end HOTAS market, you are going to find sticks that are pretty much designed for mounted use (rather than just resting on the desktop). The Virpil stick tends to sit a bit higher and it will not only be more comfortable but also more ergonomic to get a set of desk mounts. The ones that Virpil makes are a fair price (unlike most on the market) and will hold up really well.

Thanks, that’s another +1 for the Virpil system then. I appreciate these things are always going to be somewhat subjective.

I’ve already got a full GT Omega Prime profile sim rig in the man cave, but it’s setup for iRacing. I really can’t fit a second rig in there for flight sims (well not in this current house anyway), so I’ll have to make do with a desktop setup for the time being.

I appreciate the heads up and will look at the desk clamp adapters.

You don't really need to do a whole new sim setup. The desk clamps are going to be enough to make for an ergonomic experience without having to do a lot of setup or anything like that.

[Gunfreak]

Originally posted by WalkingFlask:

Originally posted by Undead Rufus:

Unless you want a "replica" version of the F/A-18 controls (e.g. Winwing), you simply can't go wrong with a Virpil rig. I use the Constellation Alpha-R with a WarBRD base, and it's great for everything.

Thanks. I heard about the Winwing F18c HOTAS, but sensed that the Virpil throttle wouldn’t be easier to navigate in VR, and that the bespoke F18 nature of the Winwing F18 would be mainly lost in VR use - I could be wrong though.

Good to hear you’ve been enjoying the Virpil system.

Actually its the reverse, in VR having controls physically match what you see in yours vr cockpit is fantastic for immersion.
I have a dedicated F16 hotas from winwing, and it's fantastic having what you feel in your hands match what you see in the cockpit. I also have Spitfire stuff that match the spitfire cockpit is awesome.

If you fly F18 mainly. Then a F18 throttle, and center stick F18 is just fantastic in VR
I'd recommend F18 throttle from winwing and either F18 stick from Winwing or use virpil base and Thrustmaster grip. And use center stick with 20cm extender. Then you have an awesome setup for F18 driving.
Don't worry about finding buttons in VR.
I use 3 different throttles, 3 different stick (well mostly 2 now) and there's no problem hitting buttons in VR, even jumping between them.

[WalkingFlask]

Originally posted by Gunfreak:

Originally posted by WalkingFlask:

Thanks. I heard about the Winwing F18c HOTAS, but sensed that the Virpil throttle wouldn’t be easier to navigate in VR, and that the bespoke F18 nature of the Winwing F18 would be mainly lost in VR use - I could be wrong though.

Good to hear you’ve been enjoying the Virpil system.

Actually its the reverse, in VR having controls physically match what you see in yours vr cockpit is fantastic for immersion.
I have a dedicated F16 hotas from winwing, and it's fantastic having what you feel in your hands match what you see in the cockpit. I also have Spitfire stuff that match the spitfire cockpit is awesome.

If you fly F18 mainly. Then a F18 throttle, and center stick F18 is just fantastic in VR
I'd recommend F18 throttle from winwing and either F18 stick from Winwing or use virpil base and Thrustmaster grip. And use center stick with 20cm extender. Then you have an awesome setup for F18 driving.
Don't worry about finding buttons in VR.
I use 3 different throttles, 3 different stick (well mostly 2 now) and there's no problem hitting buttons in VR, even jumping between them.

I get your point, but from everything I’ve seen the button / hat / switch layout on the Winwing F18 Throttle is in no way similar to the virtual cockpit in DCS.

As far as I can tell there’s absolutely no correlation.

I’m understand that the throttle grip shape is closely modelled on the real F18 and it’s certainly a close match for the one in the virtual cockpit, but I don’t see this as very important as it’s the buttons, switches and hats that I’ll be reaching for.

I could make a good case for buying the Winwing F18 Throttle for a setup with a screen, as its looks nice an perhaps more like a real cockpit design visually than the Virpil Throttle, but when in VR I won’t get that visual benefit, I’ll just be confused by the cluttered layout.

I’m sure, as you say, there Winwing F18 Throttle would be useable in VR, I just suspect the simpler more geometrical layout of the Virpil may be more convenient.

Just my impressions from studying images / videos / reviews.

[startrekmike]

Originally posted by WalkingFlask:

Originally posted by Gunfreak:

Actually its the reverse, in VR having controls physically match what you see in yours vr cockpit is fantastic for immersion.
I have a dedicated F16 hotas from winwing, and it's fantastic having what you feel in your hands match what you see in the cockpit. I also have Spitfire stuff that match the spitfire cockpit is awesome.

If you fly F18 mainly. Then a F18 throttle, and center stick F18 is just fantastic in VR
I'd recommend F18 throttle from winwing and either F18 stick from Winwing or use virpil base and Thrustmaster grip. And use center stick with 20cm extender. Then you have an awesome setup for F18 driving.
Don't worry about finding buttons in VR.
I use 3 different throttles, 3 different stick (well mostly 2 now) and there's no problem hitting buttons in VR, even jumping between them.

I get your point, but from everything I’ve seen the button / hat / switch layout on the Winwing F18 Throttle is in no way similar to the virtual cockpit in DCS.

As far as I can tell there’s absolutely no correlation.

I’m understand that the throttle grip shape is closely modelled on the real F18 and it’s certainly a close match for the one in the virtual cockpit, but I don’t see this as very important as it’s the buttons, switches and hats that I’ll be reaching for.

I could make a good case for buying the Winwing F18 Throttle for a setup with a screen, as its looks nice an perhaps more like a real cockpit design visually than the Virpil Throttle, but when in VR I won’t get that visual benefit, I’ll just be confused by the cluttered layout.

I’m sure, as you say, there Winwing F18 Throttle would be useable in VR, I just suspect the simpler more geometrical layout of the Virpil may be more convenient.

Just my impressions from studying images / videos / reviews.

Having a HOTAS setup that directly matches the aircraft's own HOTAS is very much a preference thing. It doesn't really offer any real benefits beyond immersion (and I would argue that even that depends on the individual and isn't a hard and fast rule). It sounds like you are more interested in function rather than form and in that case, The Virpil setup will serve you very well.

[Gunfreak]

Originally posted by WalkingFlask:

Originally posted by Gunfreak:

Actually its the reverse, in VR having controls physically match what you see in yours vr cockpit is fantastic for immersion.
I have a dedicated F16 hotas from winwing, and it's fantastic having what you feel in your hands match what you see in the cockpit. I also have Spitfire stuff that match the spitfire cockpit is awesome.

If you fly F18 mainly. Then a F18 throttle, and center stick F18 is just fantastic in VR
I'd recommend F18 throttle from winwing and either F18 stick from Winwing or use virpil base and Thrustmaster grip. And use center stick with 20cm extender. Then you have an awesome setup for F18 driving.
Don't worry about finding buttons in VR.
I use 3 different throttles, 3 different stick (well mostly 2 now) and there's no problem hitting buttons in VR, even jumping between them.

I get your point, but from everything I’ve seen the button / hat / switch layout on the Winwing F18 Throttle is in no way similar to the virtual cockpit in DCS.

As far as I can tell there’s absolutely no correlation.

I’m understand that the throttle grip shape is closely modelled on the real F18 and it’s certainly a close match for the one in the virtual cockpit, but I don’t see this as very important as it’s the buttons, switches and hats that I’ll be reaching for.

I could make a good case for buying the Winwing F18 Throttle for a setup with a screen, as its looks nice an perhaps more like a real cockpit design visually than the Virpil Throttle, but when in VR I won’t get that visual benefit, I’ll just be confused by the cluttered layout.

I’m sure, as you say, there Winwing F18 Throttle would be useable in VR, I just suspect the simpler more geometrical layout of the Virpil may be more convenient.

Just my impressions from studying images / videos / reviews.

You won't be searching for any buttons. They are all either right at your fingertips or a tiny hand chuffle away

You are expecting problem with VR that isn't there.
Within an hour you'll know exactly where all the buttons on the the the throttle and stick are no matter what HOTAA you choose. It simply isn't a thing in VR to not find buttons on a hotas.

Many people use panels and screens in VR that are far more cumbersome to find buttons on. But people mange it fine. As long as panels and screens are always in the same place you'll relatively fast be able to hit switches, buttons and levers in VR no problem. It will take a little longer then the HOTAS which takes no time at all. But not that long.

[Troll Norris]

Even with keyboard you will be fine. Most people don't know they are able to type without looking into keyboard until they try. Every keyboard have tactile marks on "F" and "J" and on numpad 5 for reason to find those keys without need to look at keyboard.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-the-F-and-J-keys-on-keyboards-have-bumps-on-them