DCS World Steam Edition

DCS World Steam Edition

DCS Mig 21. Would you reccomend?
Would you recommend the Mig 21, Mostly for Singleplayer flying
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Showing 16-20 of 20 comments
=AiR FORCE= May 26, 2016 @ 3:37pm 
Originally posted by Kaan:
RADAR (not really modeled what so ever)
- Navigation systems (INS and such are really like WIP)
- ECM/IRJ (can't really work when RADAR isn't simulated)
- Chaff/Flare (not simulated, working just as 100% "HOJ")
- AI logic

which plane has those problems ? mig 21 ?

Your statements are blatantly false.

The MiG-21Bis Radar is modeled and is functioning.
ECM/Chaff works also using either of the pods.
The navigation functions also.

Maybe you just don't know how to use these..
gekobal May 27, 2016 @ 1:20am 
Is it a bad idea for a beginner to get the Mig-21? I am thinking of it as my first clickable cockpit plane along with the Mig-15. Is Mig-21 too complicated like the A10C?
kazereal May 27, 2016 @ 4:24am 
Originally posted by susuwatari:
Is it a bad idea for a beginner to get the Mig-21? I am thinking of it as my first clickable cockpit plane along with the Mig-15. Is Mig-21 too complicated like the A10C?

It is different kind of complexity. A-10C has plenty of weapons management, datalink and so on. Flying A-10C can be simple since it has plenty of lift from large wings.

Mig-21bis has managing afterburner, radar cooling and so on. It does not have much of lift from those small wings so landing needs to be done at relatively large speeds, you can flameout the engine by too much negative-G and so on.

Mig-15 is simpler as there's no radar, no afterburner and so on. Mig-15 and F-86 are fun to fly (they are agile at subsonic speeds) with full systems so I can recommend them.

So they are all different kinds of aircraft.
koppel_900 May 30, 2016 @ 9:30am 


Originally posted by =AiR FoRCe=:
Originally posted by Kaan:
RADAR (not really modeled what so ever)
- Navigation systems (INS and such are really like WIP)
- ECM/IRJ (can't really work when RADAR isn't simulated)
- Chaff/Flare (not simulated, working just as 100% "HOJ")
- AI logic

which plane has those problems ? mig 21 ?

Your statements are blatantly false.

The MiG-21Bis Radar is modeled and is functioning.
ECM/Chaff works also using either of the pods.
The navigation functions also.

Maybe you just don't know how to use these..

No, a lot of the things Kaan mentioned are seriously bugged or not working or not implemented realistically, see https://leatherneck-sim.mantishub.io/view_all_bug_page.php

and many of the things marked as fixed, haven't actually been fixed eg radar symbology has been inverted for 18 months despite the devs telling us they have been fixed several times, and each patch gives us more bugs than previously.

And on top of all that try asking a question on the official Mig21 forum, the 'community manager' has completely given up helping the community and responding to any questions. I've completely lost faith that Leatherneck has the ability to complete anything beyond a pretty 3d model.
Mors (Banned) May 30, 2016 @ 9:51am 
Originally posted by =AiR FoRCe=:
Originally posted by Kaan:
RADAR (not really modeled what so ever)
- Navigation systems (INS and such are really like WIP)
- ECM/IRJ (can't really work when RADAR isn't simulated)
- Chaff/Flare (not simulated, working just as 100% "HOJ")
- AI logic

which plane has those problems ? mig 21 ?

Your statements are blatantly false.

The MiG-21Bis Radar is modeled and is functioning.
ECM/Chaff works also using either of the pods.
The navigation functions also.

Maybe you just don't know how to use these..

Sorry but you don't know what I was talking about.

Of course the radar is "modeled" but is is modeled in the sense that your radar has a half-circle in front of it, that has range of the radar "power" for a 20km to see targets and then a 10-7km to lock on them.

Now the target model has a multiplier like "RCS 0.89" from front, then the radar detection and lock-on rangs are calculated with it ie. 20*0.89=17.8 and 10*0.89=8.9. Now the radar will simply show you the target when it is at 17.8km range and then you can lock on it when it is at 8.9km range.

The ECM works just as radar range multiplier, nothing else. You can even see yourself these values in the DCS scripts and validate them in the game itself.
The Infrared jammer (Su-25T) works as a random generator that is checked once per second does missile lose its lock or not. It is like a 12 dice that is rolled once per second, and if you get number bigger than 8, then IR missile is jammed and it will lose lock on you and go ballistic.

It is so simple as that. So when you are firing R-60/60M, R-55, R-3S, R-13M etc to Su-25T rear hemisphere and has IR jammer enabled, you likely lose a lock. When Su-25T starts flaring, each flare is just like a IR jammer and gets rolled a dice that does missile lock on it and then seek to it or not. And same thing is with the Chaff, it is just a dice rolling to check does the missile lock on it or not.

And this is problem in multiplayer etc as players just spam a few chaffs and missile homes to them without problems, same thing was/is with flares that they just spam them and when you have 10 flares/chaff in the air and you need =>8 in 12 dice, you are far more luckier that one or two from all those 10 will hit it and missile is homing to CM.

The AI is problematic, especially with Mig-21Bis or anything that fires a "subpar" missiles. As at the millisecond you launch missile, AI knows that what kind missile you have launched and does correct counter measures by releasing chaff/flare and starts maneuvers. Even when the aircraft is one that has no visuals to rear and has no idea that you are behind them (sneaking behind radar turned off etc).

It was not until 1.5.x and 2.0 when we got a "Radar follows earth curvature". Meaning that if you had a SAM like Tor on shore, you could not fly closer to it at 5m altitude from sea because the Tor radar detected you from max range of the radar (remember, radar is just a circle that has range where it detects everything) even when you were behind the horizon. And now the radars are affected by horizon so you can't see behind the horizon and so on your detection range for SAM systems is much shorter, and this makes future Anti-Ship and other missions more plausible as you can actually manage to get closer to long range SAM.

Mig-21Bis is first module that even slightly tries to show you the ground clutter and echoes from clouds. It is first time when the radar is "more difficult" to operate than previously. But we have the problems like mentioned above, where the symbols shows to wrong direction, so you fly wrong and lose targets.
Last edited by Mors; May 30, 2016 @ 1:49pm
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Date Posted: May 22, 2016 @ 7:55am
Posts: 20