DLCs And Controller

[Sparky862]

Okay 1st of ... DLCs .... I see it goes same path as War Thunder, but community in War Thunder says you don't NEED DLCs, does the same count here?

Also I don't have HOTAS ... Can I still enjoy this with Controller and pull of moves?

[Gunfreak]

Originally posted by Sparky862:

Okay 1st of ... DLCs .... I see it goes same path as War Thunder, but community in War Thunder says you don't NEED DLCs, does the same count here?

Also I don't have HOTAS ... Can I still enjoy this with Controller and pull of moves?

You don't need DLC, but then you're stuck with the Su25 or you can download the A4 skyhawk which is a fantastic mod.

However using a controller, won't be very rewarding.

[Sparky862]

Originally posted by Gunfreak:

Originally posted by Sparky862:

Okay 1st of ... DLCs .... I see it goes same path as War Thunder, but community in War Thunder says you don't NEED DLCs, does the same count here?

Also I don't have HOTAS ... Can I still enjoy this with Controller and pull of moves?

You don't need DLC, but then you're stuck with the Su25 or you can download the A4 skyhawk which is a fantastic mod.

However using a controller, won't be very rewarding.

Yeah I know HOTAS is for full simulation feeling ... Juat like a Wheel and Pedals is for Racing ...

But I can use Controller perfectly fine in Racing Sim games.

Just that not sure if it will work on a Flight Sim ... It works on Microsoft Flight Sim, but then that game ain't DCS?

[Undead Rufus]

Originally posted by Sparky862:

Yeah I know HOTAS is for full simulation feeling ... Juat like a Wheel and Pedals is for Racing ...

But I can use Controller perfectly fine in Racing Sim games.

Just that not sure if it will work on a Flight Sim ... It works on Microsoft Flight Sim, but then that game ain't DCS?

I got into DCS using an Xbox controller. It "works" if you don't intend to try aerial refueling or formation flying, but you'll eventually want at least a joystick if you're at all serious about the game.

[fikmeinshizer]

You can use a controller but you could well struggle with some things. The free to play Su-25T is the best Russian ground attack plane in game so you won't be stuck for stuff to do if you want to play for free.

[zemzero]

Originally posted by Sparky862:

Just that not sure if it will work on a Flight Sim ... It works on Microsoft Flight Sim, but then that game ain't DCS?

You could us a controller but you'll probably be limited to what you can do once you're in the cockpit. There are so many buttons to press and switches to flick or knobs to turn.

Each dlc could be considered it's own game. It's only needed if you want to learn to fly a specific plane which could take dozens of hours to be proficient in. I spent at least 100 hours in the free su-25t before I bought a new plane.

[Sparky862]

Will the Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas X be enough?

[bingbean]

Originally posted by Sparky862:

Will the Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas X be enough?

The problem of controller in this game is lack of precision of thumbstick and lack of enough buttons. Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas X doesn't solve any of this problems. It only slightly enhances game experience and simulation feeling. I would recommend at least T16000m FCS HOTAS.

This game is mark as free to play , but it is not free to play game like War thunder or WoT. The free part of this game is more like a demo. You get 2 planes 2 maps and that is all. You can't unlock any other planes only by playing. If you want more you have to buy them, or try some "free" mods, but most of mod planes request on FC3 DLC.

[Sparky862]

Originally posted by bingbean:

Originally posted by Sparky862:

Will the Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas X be enough?

The problem of controller in this game is lack of precision of thumbstick and lack of enough buttons. Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas X doesn't solve any of this problems. It only slightly enhances game experience and simulation feeling. I would recommend at least T16000m FCS HOTAS.

As a entry level I'd assume and still won't be good enough?

[Gunfreak]

Originally posted by bingbean:

Originally posted by Sparky862:

Will the Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas X be enough?

The problem of controller in this game is lack of precision of thumbstick and lack of enough buttons. Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas X doesn't solve any of this problems. It only slightly enhances game experience and simulation feeling. I would recommend at least T16000m FCS HOTAS.

This game is mark as free to play , but it is not free to play game like War thunder or WoT. The free part of this game is more like a demo. You get 2 planes 2 maps and that is all. You can't unlock any other planes only by playing. If you want more you have to buy them, or try some "free" mods, but most of mod planes request on FC3 DLC.

You also get full access to the editor and can make any mission you want(except ww2)
And with the A4 mod you get the best A4 skyhawk simulator ever made, completely free. You can spend hundreds of hours just with the A4, making mission, downloading missions and campaigns.

[zemzero]

Originally posted by Sparky862:

Originally posted by bingbean:

The problem of controller in this game is lack of precision of thumbstick and lack of enough buttons. Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas X doesn't solve any of this problems. It only slightly enhances game experience and simulation feeling. I would recommend at least T16000m FCS HOTAS.

As a entry level I'd assume and still won't be good enough?

The thrustmaster X is just an xbox controller in the shape of a flightstick. It offers nothing new.

The Thrustmaster T16000M is good enough for an entry level to this game.

If you're unaware, this game is far more complex than warthunder. It's more of a study sim than a game, its like going back to school.

[Ironwu]

You can get by for a long, long time with a simple Logitech Extreme 3D Pro which has Yaw, Throttle, and 8-way hat, and a bunch of buttons. It has native DCS support and can be had for $30 to $40. It is a good, heavy stick with tight motion. It configures very well with the DCS Options Axis tuning settings. Used in conjunction with keyboard and mouse, it will serve to learn all the fundamentals of the controls and flight.

Good Hunting.

[startrekmike]

Originally posted by Sparky862:

Originally posted by Gunfreak:

You don't need DLC, but then you're stuck with the Su25 or you can download the A4 skyhawk which is a fantastic mod.

However using a controller, won't be very rewarding.

Yeah I know HOTAS is for full simulation feeling ... Juat like a Wheel and Pedals is for Racing ...

But I can use Controller perfectly fine in Racing Sim games.

Just that not sure if it will work on a Flight Sim ... It works on Microsoft Flight Sim, but then that game ain't DCS?

Think of it like this. If you play something like Gran Turismo, Forza Motorsports, the F1 series, or even Project Cars 2, the controller is fine (for the most part). Those games are made with some attention paid towards being larger, more mainstream titles and as such, they need to design them to be controller friendly from the ground up. There is a reason why they are largely called (and not in a negative sense) "simcade" titles. They are going for something in between a full "arcade" level style and a full simulation experience.

Now in contrast. If you were to try to play something like Assetto Corsa Competizione or iRacing, you would start finding that the controller (while technically usable) just won't cut it and will seriously impact not just immersion but also your basic ability to play.

Think of War Thunder as a sort of "simcade" title that was designed from the ground up to be pretty solid even with a mouse and keyboard. The developer knows that if they were to make it a full simulation, it would present a lot of barriers for entry for the mainstream audience they are very, very clearly targeting (mostly for microtransaction sale profits).

In contrast, DCS World is a lot like Assetto Corsa Competizione. It is technically "possible" to play with a controller but it was very, very clearly not designed with that in mind and as such, there are going to be serious compromises that even a lot of time and practice are not going to overcome. Even in the best case scenario, you are going to constantly wish that you had more buttons and more suitable axis controls.

Originally posted by Sparky862:

Will the Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas X be enough?

Honestly? No. The T.Flight HOTAS X is (for lack of a better term) rather misleading in that it is generally shaped like a full HOTAS setup but lacks any of the functionality that makes a HOTAS actually useful. If you want to know what I mean, just look up the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro (a very entry level standalone joystick) and compare the number of buttons and controls to the T.Flight HOTAS X. You will find that they are nearly identical. Will it be better than a controller? In some ways. Is it something that should be recommended for beginners getting into DCS for the first time who want to buy a reasonably effective entry level HOTAS? No. Not at all. It just isn't a good product for the job and will just be wasted money that could have gone towards something more suitable.

Originally posted by Sparky862:

Originally posted by bingbean:

The problem of controller in this game is lack of precision of thumbstick and lack of enough buttons. Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas X doesn't solve any of this problems. It only slightly enhances game experience and simulation feeling. I would recommend at least T16000m FCS HOTAS.

As a entry level I'd assume and still won't be good enough?

This is a big question actually and it deserves an attempt at a complete answer.

It is best to consider DCS part of the flight simulation hobby. It is kinda like getting into any pretty serious hobby in that there are things beginners can buy that will actually be useful, help them enjoy the process, help them learn, and even be useful as they get better and better at the hobby. Sadly, there are also entry level things that are essentially disposable. The idea is that you would buy such a thing because there is an assumption that if you are a beginner, you "should" start with cheap, disposable entry level stuff. That anything more would be a "waste" or a risk.

Here is the thing. You can start playing DCS with a T.Flight HOTAS X or even a controller but you will quickly reach a point where you know enough about the hobby to know they are holding you back and making things MUCH harder than they really should be. This will inevitably lead you to go the next step up and buy something like a T.16000 HOTAS, X56, or even the VKB stick/T.16000 throttle combo. Now that money you spent on the T.Flight HOTAS X kinda meant nothing. You have a thing sitting in your closet collecting dust that has no real resale value so you are probably just going to give it away. You may end up even going further still and replace those "mid-level" options I listed above with something high-end like the Warthog, Winwing setup, or a full-on Virpil setup. At least at that point your older X56, T.16000, or VKB/T.16000 combo are still suitable as spares and hold enough resale value to actually be worth selling if you want.

When new players ask me what to get, I usually tell them to skip the entry level joysticks (including the T.Flight HOTAS X) and just get a T.16000, X56, or the VKB/T.16000 throttle combo since those are much more viable entry level options that won't just be a waste of money after an upgrade.

There are times where the most economical "bang for the buck" isn't the cheapest thing you can get.

[Sparky862]

Originally posted by startrekmike:

Originally posted by Sparky862:

Yeah I know HOTAS is for full simulation feeling ... Juat like a Wheel and Pedals is for Racing ...

But I can use Controller perfectly fine in Racing Sim games.

Just that not sure if it will work on a Flight Sim ... It works on Microsoft Flight Sim, but then that game ain't DCS?

Think of it like this. If you play something like Gran Turismo, Forza Motorsports, the F1 series, or even Project Cars 2, the controller is fine (for the most part). Those games are made with some attention paid towards being larger, more mainstream titles and as such, they need to design them to be controller friendly from the ground up. There is a reason why they are largely called (and not in a negative sense) "simcade" titles. They are going for something in between a full "arcade" level style and a full simulation experience.

Now in contrast. If you were to try to play something like Assetto Corsa Competizione or iRacing, you would start finding that the controller (while technically usable) just won't cut it and will seriously impact not just immersion but also your basic ability to play.

Think of War Thunder as a sort of "simcade" title that was designed from the ground up to be pretty solid even with a mouse and keyboard. The developer knows that if they were to make it a full simulation, it would present a lot of barriers for entry for the mainstream audience they are very, very clearly targeting (mostly for microtransaction sale profits).

In contrast, DCS World is a lot like Assetto Corsa Competizione. It is technically "possible" to play with a controller but it was very, very clearly not designed with that in mind and as such, there are going to be serious compromises that even a lot of time and practice are not going to overcome. Even in the best case scenario, you are going to constantly wish that you had more buttons and more suitable axis controls.

Originally posted by Sparky862:

Will the Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas X be enough?

Honestly? No. The T.Flight HOTAS X is (for lack of a better term) rather misleading in that it is generally shaped like a full HOTAS setup but lacks any of the functionality that makes a HOTAS actually useful. If you want to know what I mean, just look up the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro (a very entry level standalone joystick) and compare the number of buttons and controls to the T.Flight HOTAS X. You will find that they are nearly identical. Will it be better than a controller? In some ways. Is it something that should be recommended for beginners getting into DCS for the first time who want to buy a reasonably effective entry level HOTAS? No. Not at all. It just isn't a good product for the job and will just be wasted money that could have gone towards something more suitable.

Originally posted by Sparky862:

As a entry level I'd assume and still won't be good enough?

This is a big question actually and it deserves an attempt at a complete answer.

It is best to consider DCS part of the flight simulation hobby. It is kinda like getting into any pretty serious hobby in that there are things beginners can buy that will actually be useful, help them enjoy the process, help them learn, and even be useful as they get better and better at the hobby. Sadly, there are also entry level things that are essentially disposable. The idea is that you would buy such a thing because there is an assumption that if you are a beginner, you "should" start with cheap, disposable entry level stuff. That anything more would be a "waste" or a risk.

Here is the thing. You can start playing DCS with a T.Flight HOTAS X or even a controller but you will quickly reach a point where you know enough about the hobby to know they are holding you back and making things MUCH harder than they really should be. This will inevitably lead you to go the next step up and buy something like a T.16000 HOTAS, X56, or even the VKB stick/T.16000 throttle combo. Now that money you spent on the T.Flight HOTAS X kinda meant nothing. You have a thing sitting in your closet collecting dust that has no real resale value so you are probably just going to give it away. You may end up even going further still and replace those "mid-level" options I listed above with something high-end like the Warthog, Winwing setup, or a full-on Virpil setup. At least at that point your older X56, T.16000, or VKB/T.16000 combo are still suitable as spares and hold enough resale value to actually be worth selling if you want.

When new players ask me what to get, I usually tell them to skip the entry level joysticks (including the T.Flight HOTAS X) and just get a T.16000, X56, or the VKB/T.16000 throttle combo since those are much more viable entry level options that won't just be a waste of money after an upgrade.

There are times where the most economical "bang for the buck" isn't the cheapest thing you can get.

I have been looking at the T.16000M setup and you get the option for x2 Joysticks or x1 Joystick and x1 Throttle Control. Digging deeper it seems like not only is the T.16000M the "new" entry level for Stick Flying, it also offer more buttons and options than most expensive options in the Market and it also has pre configured or pre installed setup for DCS and there are actually Youtubers out there still using the T.16000M and doing a very decent job in Dog Fighting ect.

[Gunfreak]

Originally posted by Sparky862:

Originally posted by startrekmike:

Think of it like this. If you play something like Gran Turismo, Forza Motorsports, the F1 series, or even Project Cars 2, the controller is fine (for the most part). Those games are made with some attention paid towards being larger, more mainstream titles and as such, they need to design them to be controller friendly from the ground up. There is a reason why they are largely called (and not in a negative sense) "simcade" titles. They are going for something in between a full "arcade" level style and a full simulation experience.

Now in contrast. If you were to try to play something like Assetto Corsa Competizione or iRacing, you would start finding that the controller (while technically usable) just won't cut it and will seriously impact not just immersion but also your basic ability to play.

Think of War Thunder as a sort of "simcade" title that was designed from the ground up to be pretty solid even with a mouse and keyboard. The developer knows that if they were to make it a full simulation, it would present a lot of barriers for entry for the mainstream audience they are very, very clearly targeting (mostly for microtransaction sale profits).

In contrast, DCS World is a lot like Assetto Corsa Competizione. It is technically "possible" to play with a controller but it was very, very clearly not designed with that in mind and as such, there are going to be serious compromises that even a lot of time and practice are not going to overcome. Even in the best case scenario, you are going to constantly wish that you had more buttons and more suitable axis controls.






Honestly? No. The T.Flight HOTAS X is (for lack of a better term) rather misleading in that it is generally shaped like a full HOTAS setup but lacks any of the functionality that makes a HOTAS actually useful. If you want to know what I mean, just look up the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro (a very entry level standalone joystick) and compare the number of buttons and controls to the T.Flight HOTAS X. You will find that they are nearly identical. Will it be better than a controller? In some ways. Is it something that should be recommended for beginners getting into DCS for the first time who want to buy a reasonably effective entry level HOTAS? No. Not at all. It just isn't a good product for the job and will just be wasted money that could have gone towards something more suitable.






This is a big question actually and it deserves an attempt at a complete answer.

It is best to consider DCS part of the flight simulation hobby. It is kinda like getting into any pretty serious hobby in that there are things beginners can buy that will actually be useful, help them enjoy the process, help them learn, and even be useful as they get better and better at the hobby. Sadly, there are also entry level things that are essentially disposable. The idea is that you would buy such a thing because there is an assumption that if you are a beginner, you "should" start with cheap, disposable entry level stuff. That anything more would be a "waste" or a risk.

Here is the thing. You can start playing DCS with a T.Flight HOTAS X or even a controller but you will quickly reach a point where you know enough about the hobby to know they are holding you back and making things MUCH harder than they really should be. This will inevitably lead you to go the next step up and buy something like a T.16000 HOTAS, X56, or even the VKB stick/T.16000 throttle combo. Now that money you spent on the T.Flight HOTAS X kinda meant nothing. You have a thing sitting in your closet collecting dust that has no real resale value so you are probably just going to give it away. You may end up even going further still and replace those "mid-level" options I listed above with something high-end like the Warthog, Winwing setup, or a full-on Virpil setup. At least at that point your older X56, T.16000, or VKB/T.16000 combo are still suitable as spares and hold enough resale value to actually be worth selling if you want.

When new players ask me what to get, I usually tell them to skip the entry level joysticks (including the T.Flight HOTAS X) and just get a T.16000, X56, or the VKB/T.16000 throttle combo since those are much more viable entry level options that won't just be a waste of money after an upgrade.

There are times where the most economical "bang for the buck" isn't the cheapest thing you can get.

I have been looking at the T.16000M setup and you get the option for x2 Joysticks or x1 Joystick and x1 Throttle Control. Digging deeper it seems like not only is the T.16000M the "new" entry level for Stick Flying, it also offer more buttons and options than most expensive options in the Market and it also has pre configured or pre installed setup for DCS and there are actually Youtubers out there still using the T.16000M and doing a very decent job in Dog Fighting ect.

I'd recommend you get a 2 lever throttle.
Many planes in DCS use 2 engines. So having a split thorttle is great to have. Also if you fly ww2. 1 can be use for throttle/RPM control.

And don't get scared about the whole study sim thing. Yes you can spend 1500 hours in one plane. Becoming a true master. Or you can be like be. Who owns half the planes and helikopters. And can fly the all. But can't master anyone. I fly a plane a few weeks, then fly something else. So when I go back to that plane I need a refresher, so I watch a YouTube video.
I have 400 hours in 1 year and having great fun. Flying campaigns, making vidoes, making missions.
I have some planes I'm more proficient in like the spitfire and F16. But I'm still not a master of those planes.

[Gunn]

Originally posted by Gunfreak:

I have 400 hours in 1 year

400 in a whole year? Do you not play very much or something? I started playing about 3-4 months ago and I'm at 430 hours. It's the only game I have installed now. DCS is a straight up drug.