How important is a Throttle?

[Mirogon]

I'm thinking about getting the T16000M Joystick, but I'm not sure if I should get the throttle aswell.

How big is the difference between a joystick + keyboard and a joystick + throttle?

[Darkreaver1980]

The Throttle is almost as important as the flight stick.

The T16000 Throttle is also one of the best ones out there. It has 3 ♥♥♥♥♥♥ hats, analogue stick, paddle for rudder input and lots of other features. you can also use the little wheel for zooming ingame. Great with Track IR.

im using the Throttle since 8 years and its likely that i wont ever get a other throttle

[Mirogon]

Originally posted by Darkreaver1980:

The Throttle is almost as important as the flight stick.

The T16000 Throttle is also one of the best ones out there. It has 3 ♥♥♥♥♥♥ hats, analogue stick, paddle for rudder input and lots of other features. you can also use the little wheel for zooming ingame. Great with Track IR.

im using the Throttle since 8 years and its likely that i wont ever get a other throttle

Ok, thanks

[-OrLoK- Слава Україн]

You'll be just fine without the throttle.

but you'll really appreciate having one.

so, if you're strapped for cash you could save for a throttle and get one later and just use another input for now.

I won't "fly" without a throttle but I could if I have to. Lots of folk do.

but it's great to have a dedicated unit.

[SSerponi76]

Originally posted by Mirogon:

How big is the difference between a joystick + keyboard and a joystick + throttle?

More or less same difference between Day and Night.
Than means: stop ask stupid questions and but that f****n throttle, you won't regret it.

[Vitor Arbex]

It really depends on your Setup, I have used Hotas setup for several years, but I find that having my left hand free for keyboard gives much more controls available than the throttle (considering your stick already have a slider for throttle) It is indeed more immersive, but also for space reasons its much more easy to setup and remove just the stick from the desk. In my personal opinion its much much more important to have rudder pedals with wheel brake axis than having the throttle. So i´d first get Pedals and then the Throttle.

[SSerponi76]

Originally posted by Vitor Arbex:

It really depends on your Setup, I have used Hotas setup for several years, but I find that having my left hand free for keyboard gives much more controls available than the throttle (considering your stick already have a slider for throttle) It is indeed more immersive, but also for space reasons its much more easy to setup and remove just the stick from the desk.

Well, with a good HOTAS setup you shouldn't feel the need to use the keyboard.
As a example, with my HOTAS Warthog I have the 90% of the commands I use mapped on the stick & throttle. The remaining 5% is shared between mouse (10%) and keyboard (1%, almost exclusively external views commands).

Originally posted by Vitor Arbex:

In my personal opinion its much much more important to have rudder pedals with wheel brake axis than having the throttle. So i´d first get Pedals and then the Throttle.

IMHO is the opposite:
1) Rudder is important but actually it is really seldom used in flight, while throttle adjustments are quite frequent.
2) Throttle controller usually adds more HOTAS controls (less need of use the keyboard/mouse)
3) Throttle axis is much more precise and easier to use than the stick slider.

If I had to choose between throttle and rudder I would choose the throttle first.

[Gunfreak]

Originally posted by SSerponi76:

Originally posted by Vitor Arbex:

It really depends on your Setup, I have used Hotas setup for several years, but I find that having my left hand free for keyboard gives much more controls available than the throttle (considering your stick already have a slider for throttle) It is indeed more immersive, but also for space reasons its much more easy to setup and remove just the stick from the desk.

Well, with a good HOTAS setup you shouldn't feel the need to use the keyboard.
As a example, with my HOTAS Warthog I have the 90% of the commands I use mapped on the stick & throttle. The remaining 5% is shared between mouse (10%) and keyboard (1%, almost exclusively external views commands).

Originally posted by Vitor Arbex:

In my personal opinion its much much more important to have rudder pedals with wheel brake axis than having the throttle. So i´d first get Pedals and then the Throttle.

IMHO is the opposite:
1) Rudder is important but actually it is really seldom used in flight, while throttle adjustments are quite frequent.
2) Throttle controller usually adds more HOTAS controls (less need of use the keyboard/mouse)
3) Throttle axis is much more precise and easier to use than the stick slider.

If I had to choose between throttle and rudder I would choose the throttle first.

Use voice attack. Then you don't need keybord at all. I have voice attack mostly for coms, but also views, and I use it for multicrew stuff like F14, Apache, and Hind.
I fly VR and can't remember the last time I ever used my keyboard while flying DCS.
What I don't have mapped to my stick, thorttle, pedal or panels. I just use the mouse for.

[Troll Norris]

Most joysticks have some kind of throttle axis. Throttle like separate controller is not such important if you don't need any precise throttle control. You need very precise throttle control for example for aerial refueling or formation flight. Also you would want it to use as collective in helicopters. For everything else it is not such important.

But big advantage of throttle are additional buttons on the throttle and some controllers also have buttons on throttle's base.

[SSerponi76]

Originally posted by Gunfreak:

Use voice attack. Then you don't need keybord at all. I have voice attack mostly for coms, but also views, and I use it for multicrew stuff like F14, Apache, and Hind.
I fly VR and can't remember the last time I ever used my keyboard while flying DCS.
What I don't have mapped to my stick, thorttle, pedal or panels. I just use the mouse for.

That whould be fun, but not very practical in my case: I'm playing mostly at night so whould risk to wake up all the others in my house

[bingbean]

Originally posted by Slithy:

You can get by without a throttle just fine and with some flight sticks you can manage the throttle from the stick so it's not true at all that it's important. However, with that said, it does make life immensely easier and I do highly recommend getting one if you can.

As for the topic of pedals that was brought up, unless you plan to fly helicopters or WW2 aircraft then they are also not essential. I fly he Apache a lot and I can't imagine life without them, but if I'm flying the F-16C or F/A-18C I only really ever use them for taxing. Keep in mind though that a good set of pedals will carry over into other sims really well if you play other sims other than DCS. For example, I've used my flight pedals for Euro Truck Simulator.

I have common rig for flying and driving as well. In my case i use steering wheel throttle and clutch pedals as rudder pedals and rim as additional button box when i flying. When i driving the joystick is good as handbrake.

@OP: Problem of HOTAS is, you will not have free hand to use mouse for free view. Use HAT switch for POV is not ideal as well. In dogfight situation you will be in huge disadvantage only with HAT POV. So if you get a HOTAS , than you will need head tracking for sure.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo?]

Originally posted by Slithy:

I fly he Apache a lot and I can't imagine life without them, but if I'm flying the F-16C or F/A-18C I only really ever use them for taxing.

Especially with the F-16C, I'd argue that a good throttle is mandatory in order to unlock the full potential of the plane. The platform was designed with HOTAS operation as a primary concept, and the ergonomics are based around that.

Personally, I wouldn't want to manage my thrust, vector, radar, countermeasures, mode configuration and weapons all at once while constantly scrambling for the keybinds. But that's exactly what you are doing in an engagement. Sure it can be done without relying entirely on HOTAS, it just isn't nearly as effective or ergonomic.

Basically the same as with head tracking, sure you can do it with mouse, or with a POV hat, but you will be at a severe disadvantage.

[Vitor Arbex]

Originally posted by bingbean:

Originally posted by Slithy:

You can get by without a throttle just fine and with some flight sticks you can manage the throttle from the stick so it's not true at all that it's important. However, with that said, it does make life immensely easier and I do highly recommend getting one if you can.

As for the topic of pedals that was brought up, unless you plan to fly helicopters or WW2 aircraft then they are also not essential. I fly he Apache a lot and I can't imagine life without them, but if I'm flying the F-16C or F/A-18C I only really ever use them for taxing. Keep in mind though that a good set of pedals will carry over into other sims really well if you play other sims other than DCS. For example, I've used my flight pedals for Euro Truck Simulator.

I have common rig for flying and driving as well. In my case i use steering wheel throttle and clutch pedals as rudder pedals and rim as additional button box when i flying. When i driving the joystick is good as handbrake.

@OP: Problem of HOTAS is, you will not have free hand to use mouse for free view. Use HAT switch for POV is not ideal as well. In dogfight situation you will be in huge disadvantage only with HAT POV. So if you get a HOTAS , than you will need head tracking for sure.

That's exactly why I said i consider Pedais more important, i´m into both Helicopters and WW2 Warbirds.

[startrekmike]

Originally posted by Mirogon:

I'm thinking about getting the T16000M Joystick, but I'm not sure if I should get the throttle aswell.

How big is the difference between a joystick + keyboard and a joystick + throttle?

The difference will be quite substantial. It is technically possible to play just about any flight sim without a dedicated throttle but in doing so, you are going to end up being stuck with one of two choices.

1.) The small throttle axis included on the base of the stick. This will technically work and in some cases (like Microsoft Flight Simulator) it might even be fine for general aviation aircraft and the like but that throttle axis is going to be VERY small so precise throttle control will be very difficult and thus certain actions (like landing some aircraft, air refueling, formation flying, etc) will not be terribly pleasant.

2.) Keyboard. As is the case with all axis controls you can bind in DCS, it is possible to use keyboard keys but in doing so, you lose pretty much any hope for precision since keys are only full input or off. I would not suggest using the keyboard for any important axis controls in a flight sim.

There is another thing to consider. Having a separate throttle unit will also give you extra buttons, switches, and (most importantly) hat switches on the throttle to work with. This is especially important when you have a very limited stick like the T.16000M with its single hat switch. Having those extra controls at your fingertips will make certain procedures A LOT faster, more intuitive, and thus easier for you to learn and get used to. Because of this, I would say (even though you didn't mention it) that everyone should pretty much ignore the Thrustmaster HOTAS-X since it has a large throttle handle but between the throttle and the stick, it has the same amount of controls as a basic, standalone entry level joystick. I suppose my point here is that you really should look for the HOTAS that gives you the most controls on BOTH the stick and the throttle that fits into your budget.

One last thing to think about. I often compare choosing beginner flight sim equipment to someone buying their first electric guitar and amplifier because the long term considerations are surprisingly similar. A lot of new guitarists go to guitar shops and when they ask employees to help them choose the "best setup for a beginner", they often get pushed into buying a $150 to $200 "starter kit" that usually includes a VERY entry level guitar and a little 10 to 15 watt solid state practice amplifier with a tiny 8" speaker. This setup is "adequate" in the sense that it is possible to play the guitar and the amplifier will make noise but when a beginner buys such a setup, they are essentially buying a pair of jeans that are exactly their size just before a growth spurt. There is no room to grow in such a setup and as such, it largely becomes disposable after half a year or so.

To make matters worse. In this day of people unconditionally trusting internet user reviews, it is very easy for beginners to get misled into thinking that entry level equipment is somehow a "diamond in the rough" because other beginners write reviews without having any real experience with anything else and thus no real way to know what makes other stuff better or worse.

The big thing I am trying to say here is that DCS World (as a flight sim) is pretty much a hobby in itself and like any other hobby, the best entry level equipment you can get is usually going to be the best stuff you can comfortably afford. Sometimes getting the "best bang for the buck" won't mean getting the cheapest thing. If you are in a situation where you can't really justify or budget something in a higher price bracket, you gotta deal with what you can afford but if you do have some wiggle room, I would suggest thinking about how much room to grow a given peripheral will give you. For some, the entry level T.16000 HOTAS setup will be the perfect starting point based on their budget, for others, something like a Logitech X56 or even a combination of the VKB Gladiator and the Thrustmaster T.16000 throttle will be a good entry point. The latter gives one a bit of wiggle room to grow into while the former is quite limited by the design of the stick and the lack of useful controls on it.

To put this another way. If someone where to ask me directly to suggest a good starter setup for DCS, I would first ask them what their workable budget is. If they say that they are pretty tight on funds and can't really save up or anything like that, I would likely suggest the T.16000 HOTAS as a absolute minimum. It will give you enough functionality to get going even if the stick design will quickly become a limiting factor. If they are in a situation where they have a bit of a budget to play with but still want the "best possible bang for the buck", I would suggest the Logitech X56 as a starting point (even with its potential reliability issues) since it has a lot of versatility and will handle just about any aircraft type you throw at it without any serious limitations on bindings. Beyond that, I might also suggest Winwing's Orion HOTAS since it has pretty easily filled the higher side of the mid-range pretty effectively while still being relatively affordable for those with a bit of a budget to work with.

[Unforg1v3n]

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[Gunfreak]

Originally posted by Vitor Arbex:

Originally posted by bingbean:

I have common rig for flying and driving as well. In my case i use steering wheel throttle and clutch pedals as rudder pedals and rim as additional button box when i flying. When i driving the joystick is good as handbrake.

@OP: Problem of HOTAS is, you will not have free hand to use mouse for free view. Use HAT switch for POV is not ideal as well. In dogfight situation you will be in huge disadvantage only with HAT POV. So if you get a HOTAS , than you will need head tracking for sure.

That's exactly why I said i consider Pedais more important, i´m into both Helicopters and WW2 Warbirds.

Given those that fly a lot of helicopter say there is a huge difference in just going from a thorttle to a proper collective when flying rotor stuff when it comes to control. I can't imagine how hard it would be to get fine power control in helicopter without a throttle.