Chaff

[Blinky]

Is anyone having any luck using Chaff against the Aim-120? seems sense the update Chaff does nothing. I still have luck by doing basic flight profiles against it like notching and also turning away but when I review my Tacview files even when I'm in the perfect Notching angle with ground behind me 90degree offset or more while dumping all the chaff I have, the 120 still never stops tracking me.

I've been in the F-14 so thats a lot of chaff and also the F-18 also still a lot of chaff between me and the missile. I dump the chaff when i'm at a notching angle while also turning away from the missile

not sure if it makes a difference but I also have Jammers on

[dan]

Yup only outrunning it seems to work.

[Blinky]

Originally posted by dan:

Yup only outrunning it seems to work.

Seems like the Aim-120 got more then a little upgrade. Doesn’t seem right to me, no missile is perfectly resistant to every type of counter measure.

[Blinky]

Originally posted by Insônia:

Not just amraam.
tho amraam has some wired maneuver as well, it seems off for few sec the suddenly snap back on you.
the R-27 is also kinda insane. i got an AI (excellent) and splash it near 50km away with single shot, those should never happen few patches ago.:creepy:
only known they are working on review those missile data and models

yeah I just got a friend to do some testing with me. He's in F-16 engaging me with Aim-120C and i'm in F-18 with no weapons. he fires first missile and I got a 90 degree notch according to Tacview while dumping chaff and it seems for a brief moment the 120 follows the chaff but then at a 67 degree left offset at 9nm it gains lock on me again which seems like an insane angle to reaquire a target (correct me if i'm wrong but thats better then the radar on the aircraft isn't it?). the second Missile i runaway dumping chaff and it not once lost lock on me going through hilly terrain. This test we done 12 times and the same out come every time aim-120 never ever stops tracking the aircraft but you can runaway from them

I have Tacview files but not sure how to upload them.

[Vanhala]

AMRAAM is fairly resistant to chaff, but it's weakness is said to be jamming. That's in real life. DCS portrait of it is just the best guess. Anyways the large offset might be due to datalink? AMRAAM can change target midair (irl), as long as it's linked to launching aircraft.

[Troll Norris]

Hi, it depends how do you use them. Using just only countermeasutes might not be enough. You have to fly perpendiculary to radar source and have nice terrain background. Also doing 180 turns, always away from radar source to drain the missile kinetic energy as much as you can. But even this does not grand evade. In short distances the jammer is not such effective.

[dan]

ER?

[Blinky]

Originally posted by Vanhala:

AMRAAM is fairly resistant to chaff, but it's weakness is said to be jamming. That's in real life. DCS portrait of it is just the best guess. Anyways the large offset might be due to datalink? AMRAAM can change target midair (irl), as long as it's linked to launching aircraft.

I new the Aim-120d did this but didn’t realise the aim-120C did. Thanks for the update.

Does anyone know if jamming missiles programmed in DCS? Or if it actually works?

[Vanhala]

AFAIK Grim Reapers tested this and they found jamming effective in many cases. However, it's only very simplified mechanic at this point, I think it only delays missile lock-on time and causes some other fairly straightforward symptoms. I have used jamming in Viggen and in F-14, in Viggen it is key asset when fighting SAMs. It delays launch several seconds, and that's usually enough to take SA-10 out with Mjölnir, when flying low and fast (low means REALLY low, less than 50m most of the time). So to me, it seems to function.

[Blinky]

Originally posted by Vanhala:

AFAIK Grim Reapers tested this and they found jamming effective in many cases. However, it's only very simplified mechanic at this point, I think it only delays missile lock-on time and causes some other fairly straightforward symptoms. I have used jamming in Viggen and in F-14, in Viggen it is key asset when fighting SAMs. It delays launch several seconds, and that's usually enough to take SA-10 out with Mjölnir, when flying low and fast (low means REALLY low, less than 50m most of the time). So to me, it seems to function.

So it seem to jam the aircraft which I knew but it doesn’t seem to jam the missile itself correct?

I guess this would be very hard to test if it works on missile. Only way to tell would to have ED actually say they have coded such a function?

[Vanhala]

Originally posted by Insônia:

chizh said AIM120's ECCM is very resistance.
the missile can homing on jam anyway. the jammer on doppler rad is that may affect/prevent it get correct distance info, mess with prediction. fly "straightforward" pursuit for a moment , instead of lead pursuit, i assume. when it get closer it make no effects

The missiles seeker head is not sensitive to jam, yes, but the datalink in earlier AMRAAMs is (key part of AMRAAM's function). Probably better in D. And yes, main effect jamming has on pulse doppler is erraneous range/fake returns.

About how is jamming affecting missiles themselves in DCS, impossible to say for sure. At least it's far more reliable to just take advantage on delayed launch and turn cold asap after launch, together with other evasive actions.