So as you know, I have a Warthog now.

[The Cunning Fox (raZoleg)]

However, I got an email from VKB saying that they now have Gladiator NXT in store in Russia, this was a few hours ago.

Since I have upgraded literally like a few months ago from my trusty X-55, should I get the VKB stick?

[Sizigmund]

It is up to you of course. But you can modify one of them, to use it as a helicopter collective.

[startrekmike]

Originally posted by The Cunning Fox (razoleg):

However, I got an emal fro VKB saying that they now have Gladiator NXT in store in Russia, this was a few hours ago.

Since I have upgraded literally like a few months ago from my trusty X-55, should I get the VKB stick?

Honestly? I would stick with the Warthog for a while. Eventually it will come to a point where you need to replace it and at that point, it would be a good time to really, fully upgrade from the Warthog.

I recently upgraded from my Warthog to a full Virpil setup but the only reason I did it was because my Warthog base broke. I wanted a Virpil setup for years but I waited until I had a real reason to actually replace it.

[The Cunning Fox (raZoleg)]

I am wondering cause people say they “upgrade” from Warthog, but I am like “this is a metal joystick, resembling an F-16 and A-10 stick, endorsed by USAF themselves, how can you upgrade from that?”.

And it’s still shiny and out of the box. I’d feel like an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ if I bought something new whilst I already have one, like why would you need two joysticks? I hear some people do it in space sims, but I don’t get how they make it work.

[startrekmike]

Originally posted by The Cunning Fox (razoleg):

I am wondering cause people say they “upgrade” from Warthog, but I am like “this is a metal joystick, resembling an F-16 and A-10 stick, endorsed by USAF themselves, how can you upgrade from that?”.

And it’s still shiny and out of the box.

This is one of those situations where it can be somewhat easy to be a bit dazzled by the warthog's initial first impression. Keep in mind that (exactly like you), I went from a X56 (that I actually liked in a lot of ways) to a Warthog. The metal parts convey a sense of quality (something we need to talk about in some detail in a bit) and the overall feel (out of the box) is very smooth. When I got mine, I was pretty quick to dismiss any idea that there was anything "truly better in a meaningful, practical sense". That extended even to perhaps being a bit too dismissive of any complaints I saw about its build quality. It just felt so solid, how could it possibly fail?

After some time (a few years I think), my stick base broke. This is not an entirely uncommon issue that stems from Thrustmaster putting a lot of money into machining a metal grip while REALLY skimping out on the internal mechanism. When you open it up, you will notice two major issues. The first is that the heart of the Warthog is a plastic ball and cup joint. This doesn't seem like a big deal right up until the point that it breaks. I didn't think mine would break, I put some emphasis on being rather gentle with my stuff but it did and suddenly all the metal used didn't really mean much.

The second issue (probably even related to why mine broke) is that they use a rubber O-ring to protect the ball joint from pressing against a metal part of the housing. This isn't secured as well as it really, really should have been and it came off. You can superglue it back in place but it is another internal design issue that all the metal grips in the world can't offset, you know?

This brings us to the "made of metal" thing. A lot of folks in the community seem to place a lot of emphasis on having a stick grip made of metal as if that actually matters (beyond tactile feel). It doesn't. A grip being made of metal doesn't mean anything in terms of function and in the Warthog's case, it actually might be the weight of that grip that helps accelerate deterioration of the internals. A metal grip feels great but in a pure engineering/technical sense, a plastic grip works exactly as well. What really matters is the internals (switches, components, gimble, etc). This is why the Virpil setup (which is significantly more expensive) has a plastic grip. They put that money into better switches and internals where it will actually matter in the long-run.

So why are other (more expensive) setups like Virpil, VKB, or (I am still not sure on this one) Winwing "better"? Well. the stick base's internal mechanism is a big one. Instead of that large central centering spring surrounding a plastic ball and cup joint, you have two individual axis mechanisms. In the case of the Virpil specifically (the one I have direct experience with), each axis has its own cam (that you can swap out for different overall feel) and springs. This allows you to get a very smooth, very precise feel without that hard center that the Warthog has (that seems great until you feel a stick without it). Suddenly I went from fighting that hard center detent on the Warthog to very smoothly "fingertip flying" with extremely precise movements the Warthog stick base never really allowed by design.

All that being said, I still think you should run the Warthog until either you have had it a long while or until it dies. From there, just do a full upgrade to something from Virpil or the like. The Warthog is fine. It generally works well and won't actively hinder your experience (aside from the inherent versatility problems you run into when using a replica focused setup as opposed to something built with a lot of different needs in mind).

Sorry this is long. I know that it is something I get picked on about a lot but I figured that considering we each have a similar HOTAS background, my perspective might be useful.

[bingbean]

Originally posted by The Cunning Fox (razoleg):

I am wondering cause people say they “upgrade” from Warthog, but I am like “this is a metal joystick, resembling an F-16 and A-10 stick, endorsed by USAF themselves, how can you upgrade from that?”.

And it’s still shiny and out of the box. I’d feel like an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ if I bought something new whilst I already have one, like why would you need two joysticks? I hear some people do it in space sims, but I don’t get how they make it work.

In space is no gravity so the spaceship can fly like helicopter and plane at the same time. So you use right stick for classic pitch,roll and yaw if you have twist and left stick for thrust forward/backward, side flying and up/down flying.

Warthog is a good joystick, the only downside compared to the VKB NXT is that, it does not have a twist axis, so you need to have pedals to control the rudder, or just control them with buttons, which is probably not ideal.

[startrekmike]

Originally posted by bingbean:

Originally posted by The Cunning Fox (razoleg):

I am wondering cause people say they “upgrade” from Warthog, but I am like “this is a metal joystick, resembling an F-16 and A-10 stick, endorsed by USAF themselves, how can you upgrade from that?”.

And it’s still shiny and out of the box. I’d feel like an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ if I bought something new whilst I already have one, like why would you need two joysticks? I hear some people do it in space sims, but I don’t get how they make it work.

In space is no gravity so the spaceship can fly like helicopter and plane at the same time. So you use right stick for classic pitch,roll and yaw if you have twist and left stick for thrust forward/backward, side flying and up/down flying.

Warthog is a good joystick, the only downside compared to the VKB NXT is that, it does not have a twist axis, so you need to have pedals to control the rudder, or just control them with buttons, which is probably not ideal.

I think it is not unfair to say that Thrustmaster assumed that if one is spending $400+ on a HOTAS, they probably are also either in the market for pedals or already have a set.

[The Cunning Fox (raZoleg)]

Yeah, the ball and the fact that it’s made in China really put me off after a couple of YT reviews, as well as make quality (even mine has defects).

No, I have developed a skill recently in reading walls of text and actually comprehending them fully in matter of a few minutes. Don’t apologise, even though I always trolled you for it.

In all honesty, I only ordered WT because I have had no other choice. Meanwhile, to repeat myself a thousandth time — I have yanked, jerked and done stuff to my X-55 that is illegal on Deep Web abuse porn sites. I have thrown it around, swore at it, literally rage-flying as it were. Nothing ever broke. It’s fully plastic, and it has no “weight” feel to it, if you touch it — it feels like it would break at any moment, but I don’t want to go full Laobi (hey bud, if you’re reading this, I mean I don’t want to go full obscene humor… you keep doing what you’re doing, Lagend) in order to describe just how much abuse my X-55 has taken. Funnily enough, the frog (who used to do reciews on joysticks) said it is only a “temporary option”, mine has served me like an AK digged up from the dirt of Vietnam war — whenever I connect it to the PC, it’s game.

Originally posted by bingbean:

Originally posted by The Cunning Fox (razoleg):

I am wondering cause people say they “upgrade” from Warthog, but I am like “this is a metal joystick, resembling an F-16 and A-10 stick, endorsed by USAF themselves, how can you upgrade from that?”.

And it’s still shiny and out of the box. I’d feel like an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ if I bought something new whilst I already have one, like why would you need two joysticks? I hear some people do it in space sims, but I don’t get how they make it work.

In space is no gravity so the spaceship can fly like helicopter and plane at the same time. So you use right stick for classic pitch,roll and yaw if you have twist and left stick for thrust forward/backward, side flying and up/down flying.

Warthog is a good joystick, the only downside compared to the VKB NXT is that, it does not have a twist axis, so you need to have pedals to control the rudder, or just control them with buttons, which is probably not ideal.

I am an old spacesim veteran, from Privateer to Tachyon to Fresspace to X3. Never had the need for anything but the mouse. That setup sounds weird. Left/right for up/down?

[-OrLoK- Слава Україн]

Warthog gets a bad rap imho.

I upgraded parts of mine but have now moved to Virpil.

I miss the clunky heft of my WH but I don't want to go back from my Virpil kit.

if a WH suits your situation and pocket then its fine!

I still have my HotasX for emergencies, which I still rate as a good cheap "beginner" hotas

point being, if one is happy, there's no *need* to up or sidegrade.

[SSerponi76]

Is it possible to use VKB/Virpil grips on a Warthog base?
I remeber I read somewhere that it can be done.

BTW : I have a warthog with both the standard A-10/F-16 grip and F/A-18(/F-15/Av8b) one.
I like to use the grip which is more similar to the one uised on the plane I'm flying with and configure it as much a possible in the same way as the real stick.

[Richardus]

Originally posted by SSerponi76:

Is it possible to use VKB/Virpil grips on a Warthog base?

Yes, though it may require an adapter. Note that it's usually recommended to do it the other way around: put Thrustmaster grips on a Virpil/Gunfighter base.

The TM base is pretty bad compared to the Virpil/VKB one but the grips are pretty serviceable.

[Awac]

I had the Warthog, and changed to a VPC WarBRD+ConstelationAlpha stick. The thing about the warthog is it uses springs. Changeing to a cam system is night and day and well worth the money.

The difference is the warthog is extremly stiff around the center making small movements hard. Using a cam system the joystick is very soft, yet centers around the center making tiny adjustments possible even without the joystick being mounted on a long stick. Something i found impossible with the Warthog.

Its not the stick that makes a huge difference, the warthog stick is great, but its the base that is garbage.

[Dura_Ace]

Originally posted by The Cunning Fox (razoleg):

Yeah, the ball and the fact that it’s made in China really put me off after a couple of YT reviews, as well as make quality (even mine has defects).

No, I have developed a skill recently in reading walls of text and actually comprehending them fully in matter of a few minutes. Don’t apologise, even though I always trolled you for it.

In all honesty, I only ordered WT because I have had no other choice. Meanwhile, to repeat myself a thousandth time — I have yanked, jerked and done stuff to my X-55 that is illegal on Deep Web abuse porn sites. I have thrown it around, swore at it, literally rage-flying as it were. Nothing ever broke. It’s fully plastic, and it has no “weight” feel to it, if you touch it — it feels like it would break at any moment, but I don’t want to go full Laobi (hey bud, if you’re reading this, I mean I don’t want to go full obscene humor… you keep doing what you’re doing, Lagend) in order to describe just how much abuse my X-55 has taken. Funnily enough, the frog (who used to do reciews on joysticks) said it is only a “temporary option”, mine has served me like an AK digged up from the dirt of Vietnam war — whenever I connect it to the PC, it’s game.

Originally posted by bingbean:

In space is no gravity so the spaceship can fly like helicopter and plane at the same time. So you use right stick for classic pitch,roll and yaw if you have twist and left stick for thrust forward/backward, side flying and up/down flying.

Warthog is a good joystick, the only downside compared to the VKB NXT is that, it does not have a twist axis, so you need to have pedals to control the rudder, or just control them with buttons, which is probably not ideal.

I am an old spacesim veteran, from Privateer to Tachyon to Fresspace to X3. Never had the need for anything but the mouse. That setup sounds weird. Left/right for up/down?

Don't knock stuff that is made in china. I dont know about joysticks but as far as bikes are concerned most carbon fiber bikes are made in china. Be that taiwan or mainland.

Most bikes with fancy names like giant or specialized and a shed load of other ones are made in china. My kuota was made in china. Designed in italy but made in china. 1685 pounds sterling with mavic cosmic elite wheels.

You can get a china branded bike, that is most likely made in the same factory as the western branded ones for a fraction of the price. These are not rejects or B models.

My seatpost is carbon. I could have spent a min of 100 for a decent one. I spent 70.

[The Cunning Fox (raZoleg)]

Originally posted by Dura_Ace:

Don't knock stuff that is made in china. I dont know about joysticks but as far as bikes are concerned most carbon fiber bikes are made in china. Be that taiwan or mainland.

Most bikes with fancy names like giant or specialized and a shed load of other ones are made in china. My kuota was made in china. Designed in italy but made in china. 1685 pounds sterling with mavic cosmic elite wheels.

You can get a china branded bike, that is most likely made in the same factory as the western branded ones for a fraction of the price. These are not rejects or B models.

My seatpost is carbon. I could have spent a min of 100 for a decent one. I spent 70.

Yeah I have lived there for two and a half decades, everything that's made there, be it TW or PRC, has never been of anything but ♥♥♥♥-tier quality.

[MadKreator]

imo , keep the warthog hotas. when you feel like you need to upgrade, i'd recommend the vkb gunfighter mk3 ultimate. spend the extra $100 or whatever on the all metal version( not just because the grip is metal but because the buttons are different too), swappable button covers, swappable hat switches/ analog sticks, and lots of buttons! expensive, yes. worth it? 110% in my opinion. also the desk mounts they have are killer. Im using a winwing orion throttle with it but the gunfighter ultimate hotas is absolutely killer! I was really hesitant on spending $500+ on just a stick, plus $100 mount but after using it for the last year, I would buy it again and again without the slightest hesitation.

[jalsina]

Having researched a lot of Hotas before purchasing my current X56, I would prefer the Warthog more than the going for a VKB, but be assure that the VKB stick is a very good quality joystick.

The problem is that VKB has no throttle to offer along the stick (so far), so the only option for the VKB stick is buying the Thrustmaster TWCS (when you don't have a throttle) or one of the more expensive available.

The problem with the Warthog may be for someone (my case) that it has no twist axis, but it's not needed if you have pedals.