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Jerem / Ta'i'o's Apr 26, 2021 @ 7:57am
F/A 18C or JF-17
Hi guys,

I'm a huge fan of flight sims and know quite a bit on the subject, and DCS appeals me for a while now with the aim to know a bit (a lot? :)) more on modern combat aircrafts.
I haven't yet play a lot, and I think for me now it could be a good time to jump in. But I want to (and I am eager to) buy a module with a high fidelity aircraft to begin in this new world as it seems to be highly recommended.

Doing a bit of research and I found the F/A 18 and the JF-17 that seem great versatile aircrafts.
Which one do you recommend for a highly motivated beginner?
Do any of those come with missions / tutorials for single player content as well?
Do you have maybe other recoms that I may have missed?

Thanks a lot!
Happy flying,

Taios
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Originally posted by startrekmike:
Both are really solid modules so on a raw quality level, you can't really go wrong with either one.

The big, most obvious difference is that the F/A-18C is carrier based and as such, you get to explore that whole side of things. It can be a lot of fun learning and mastering the proper carrier landing procedures (though it involves a lot more than you might think). It is important to note that the Hornet doesn't have land based ILS capability so while you can totally land on airbases, you will not have instrument landing capability unless you land on a carrier. It isn't a big deal but it is something noteworthy regardless.

In a lot of ways, the Hornet is an older aircraft when compared to the JF-17. The cockpit is a bit (and only really a bit) more analog overall and some of the systems are a bit less modern. This doesn't really mean that it is out of date per se. It is just that you can tell that the aircraft itself is a bit older under all the modernization efforts.

In regards to the JF-17. The big thing to keep in mind is that it is essentially a slightly less expensive take on the F-16. When you hop into the cockpit, you can find a lot of similarities (probably because Pakistani pilots need to be able transition from the F-16 to the JF-17 in real life). It's cockpit is a lot more modern with a heavier emphasis on larger, full color MFD's and a lot of "off the shelf" components. This results in a plane that is a bit easier to work with but also a bit less potent in some specific cases. For example. The TWS radar mode only provides guidance for two targets at a time. Considering that it is wise to only carry two active SD-10 missiles at a time, this isn't a big deal but it does provide some contrast when compared to the rather impressive TWS capability of the Hornet.

A lot has been (perhaps wrongfully) said about fuel efficiency with the JF-17 but I have found that adopting realistic fuel conservation habits and proper cruise procedures allows for very long flights with external tanks. If you do need to use a lot of gas, you can always do some air refueling to top the tanks off when required. Assuming that one understands basic throttle control, sticks to logical altitudes (25,000+ for cruise), and some basic, common sense fuel conservation procedures, one will probably run out of oxygen before they run out of gas.

That last bit is a interesting distinction. The Hornet has a OBOGS system and as such, will not run out of breathable oxygen for the pilot. The JF-17 only has normal oxygen bottles so in a long enough flight, you absolutely will run out of oxygen and will need to reduce altitude until the mission is over. This isn't a huge deal but it is one of the interesting things that makes them different.

As far as weapons go, the JF-17 and F/A-18C are going to offer generally similar fare with the Hornet edging it out in raw variety. That being said, the JF-17 can carry some nice gliding GPS guided bombs that give it better stand-off range than a typical JDAM. On a practical level, they both pack a similar punch in terms of weapon choice but the JF-17 does have some cool options like the aforementioned glide bombs and the JSOW copy that uses sensor fused munitions (like the CBU-105/97 family of bombs).

One big thing to keep in mind is that the JF-17's air to air capability is limited by a less modern IR missile (the Hornet's AIM-9X is a monster) and the JF-17's lack of a helmet mounted system. In terms of general situational awareness/target management and close-in dogfighting, the Hornet is going to have a significant, undeniable edge that can't be arbitrarily dismissed with the usual "A good pilot can make all the difference!" platitude.

They are both fantastic modules. You can't really go wrong with either one. Just know that the JF-17 isn't going to have a lot of the raw sensor/weapon power that the Hornet has. They are pretty close but the Hornet is a better aircraft overall (if that is important to you).

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startrekmike Apr 26, 2021 @ 8:49am 
Both are really solid modules so on a raw quality level, you can't really go wrong with either one.

The big, most obvious difference is that the F/A-18C is carrier based and as such, you get to explore that whole side of things. It can be a lot of fun learning and mastering the proper carrier landing procedures (though it involves a lot more than you might think). It is important to note that the Hornet doesn't have land based ILS capability so while you can totally land on airbases, you will not have instrument landing capability unless you land on a carrier. It isn't a big deal but it is something noteworthy regardless.

In a lot of ways, the Hornet is an older aircraft when compared to the JF-17. The cockpit is a bit (and only really a bit) more analog overall and some of the systems are a bit less modern. This doesn't really mean that it is out of date per se. It is just that you can tell that the aircraft itself is a bit older under all the modernization efforts.

In regards to the JF-17. The big thing to keep in mind is that it is essentially a slightly less expensive take on the F-16. When you hop into the cockpit, you can find a lot of similarities (probably because Pakistani pilots need to be able transition from the F-16 to the JF-17 in real life). It's cockpit is a lot more modern with a heavier emphasis on larger, full color MFD's and a lot of "off the shelf" components. This results in a plane that is a bit easier to work with but also a bit less potent in some specific cases. For example. The TWS radar mode only provides guidance for two targets at a time. Considering that it is wise to only carry two active SD-10 missiles at a time, this isn't a big deal but it does provide some contrast when compared to the rather impressive TWS capability of the Hornet.

A lot has been (perhaps wrongfully) said about fuel efficiency with the JF-17 but I have found that adopting realistic fuel conservation habits and proper cruise procedures allows for very long flights with external tanks. If you do need to use a lot of gas, you can always do some air refueling to top the tanks off when required. Assuming that one understands basic throttle control, sticks to logical altitudes (25,000+ for cruise), and some basic, common sense fuel conservation procedures, one will probably run out of oxygen before they run out of gas.

That last bit is a interesting distinction. The Hornet has a OBOGS system and as such, will not run out of breathable oxygen for the pilot. The JF-17 only has normal oxygen bottles so in a long enough flight, you absolutely will run out of oxygen and will need to reduce altitude until the mission is over. This isn't a huge deal but it is one of the interesting things that makes them different.

As far as weapons go, the JF-17 and F/A-18C are going to offer generally similar fare with the Hornet edging it out in raw variety. That being said, the JF-17 can carry some nice gliding GPS guided bombs that give it better stand-off range than a typical JDAM. On a practical level, they both pack a similar punch in terms of weapon choice but the JF-17 does have some cool options like the aforementioned glide bombs and the JSOW copy that uses sensor fused munitions (like the CBU-105/97 family of bombs).

One big thing to keep in mind is that the JF-17's air to air capability is limited by a less modern IR missile (the Hornet's AIM-9X is a monster) and the JF-17's lack of a helmet mounted system. In terms of general situational awareness/target management and close-in dogfighting, the Hornet is going to have a significant, undeniable edge that can't be arbitrarily dismissed with the usual "A good pilot can make all the difference!" platitude.

They are both fantastic modules. You can't really go wrong with either one. Just know that the JF-17 isn't going to have a lot of the raw sensor/weapon power that the Hornet has. They are pretty close but the Hornet is a better aircraft overall (if that is important to you).

#1
SSerponi76 Apr 26, 2021 @ 8:52am 
Jeff and the Bug are both nice modules and two really good multi-role aircrafts.
Personally I do prefer Hornet since it is carrier capable and nicley couple with Supercarrier module. Both come with a basic campaign and some single/training/qick start missions, however, Hornet has a much better support form devs and community, having more paid and free extra campaigns.

If you want to take a deeper look, here are the Chuck's guides of both:

https://www.mudspike.com/chucks-guides-dcs-f-a-18c-hornet/
https://www.mudspike.com/chucks-guides-dcs-jf-17-thunder/

Originally posted by Poor Yurik:
An easy argument is that I highly doubt the JF-17's cockpit is in English, being that it is a Pakistaki/Chinese collab.

The Jeff has a full english cockpit.
#2
Poor Yurik Apr 26, 2021 @ 8:55am 
Originally posted by SSerponi76:
Jeff and the Bug are both nice modules and two really good multi-role aircrafts.
Personally I do prefer Hornet since it is carrier capable and nicley couple with Supercarrier module. Both come with a basic campaign and some single/training/qick start missions, however, Hornet has a much better support form devs and community, having more paid and free extra campaigns.

If you want to take a deeper look, here are the Chuck's guides of both:

https://www.mudspike.com/chucks-guides-dcs-f-a-18c-hornet/
https://www.mudspike.com/chucks-guides-dcs-jf-17-thunder/

Originally posted by Poor Yurik:
An easy argument is that I highly doubt the JF-17's cockpit is in English, being that it is a Pakistaki/Chinese collab.

The Jeff has a full english cockpit.

Ah, thank you for the clarification. Deleting my comment so as to not unintentionally mislead anyone.
#3
SSerponi76 Apr 26, 2021 @ 9:04am 
Originally posted by Poor Yurik:
Ah, thank you for the clarification. Deleting my comment so as to not unintentionally mislead anyone.

:steamthumbsup::steamhappy:
#4
dan Apr 26, 2021 @ 9:47am 
I have both. But I never really got into the hornet cuz I didn't have a hotas then and couldn't manage all the controls as a newbie.
When I got Jeff later i really got into it cuz it felt easy to manage everything from waypoints to weapons. Quite intuitive.

Both carry a lot of toys that can do some serious damage. Can't really go wrong with either one.

If you like big fancy ipads with clear datalink, 32 laser guided rockets, 20nm Jsow cluster bombs and 80nm TV cruise missiles then go jf17

If you like carriers, 12 amraams, hms, mavericks, harms, harpoon, aim9-haX, eye of sauron radar and two engines and two vertical stabilizers and two tpods then go hornet.
#5
Jerem / Ta'i'o's Apr 26, 2021 @ 3:19pm 
Wow thanks a lot guys, all of you, it is really appreciated ! :D
I'll go for the F/A-18C then, starting reading stuff and learning how to master this beast :-). The Chuck guides are definitely a golden mine and a great help for that, thanks for the links!
#6
SSerponi76 Apr 26, 2021 @ 3:46pm 
Originally posted by Jerem / Ta'i'o's:
Wow thanks a lot guys, all of you, it is really appreciated ! :D
I'll go for the F/A-18C then, starting reading stuff and learning how to master this beast :-). The Chuck guides are definitely a golden mine and a great help for that, thanks for the links!

If your budget allows, consider invest some money in Supercarrier module too.
It is the perfect companion for the Hornet adding an huge realism in carrier operations.
#7
Jerem / Ta'i'o's Apr 27, 2021 @ 12:47pm 
Originally posted by SSerponi76:
Originally posted by Jerem / Ta'i'o's:
Wow thanks a lot guys, all of you, it is really appreciated ! :D
I'll go for the F/A-18C then, starting reading stuff and learning how to master this beast :-). The Chuck guides are definitely a golden mine and a great help for that, thanks for the links!

If your budget allows, consider invest some money in Supercarrier module too.
It is the perfect companion for the Hornet adding an huge realism in carrier operations.

Yes I'll definitely do that once I am more familiar with the Hornet :-). Can't wait being able to perform carrier operations, sounds great fun!
#8
SSerponi76 Apr 27, 2021 @ 2:05pm 
Originally posted by Jerem / Ta'i'o's:
Originally posted by SSerponi76:

If your budget allows, consider invest some money in Supercarrier module too.
It is the perfect companion for the Hornet adding an huge realism in carrier operations.

Yes I'll definitely do that once I am more familiar with the Hornet :-). Can't wait being able to perform carrier operations, sounds great fun!

:steamthumbsup:
#9
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Date Posted: Apr 26, 2021 @ 7:57am
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