Opinions on which is better for newbie to DCS L-39ZA Albatros or C-101CC Aviojet?

[akmatov]

^ Both are very attractive.

[dan]

Newbies usually go for the big shiny boom and zoom America f yeah jets and not the hairdryers with wings.

[akmatov]

LMAO and how many are overwhelmed and crash and burn?

[Kiwoeoe]

just get both :D

[startrekmike]

Originally posted by akmatov:

LMAO and how many are overwhelmed and crash and burn?

This will probably be controversial to say but I don't really think that getting overwhelmed, crashing, and burning are the result of choosing the a non-"newbie" aircraft module. Instead. I think that new players get overwhelmed, crash, burn, and potentially leave the hobby behind because they picked a aircraft module based on its perceived complexity and not on how much they are interested in it personally.

Let's keep in mind that at the end of the day, DCS is a consumer level simulator that is intended as a entertainment product. It is a realistic entertainment product but still a entertainment product none the less. With that in mind. A new player should really focus on picking the aircraft that really catches their interest and excites them rather than picking the "easiest to learn" as if there is some sort of rigid progression path that every player must kinda follow.

In real life, it makes sense to put combat pilots into less powerful, less sophisticated trainers because it reduces danger and potential loss of much more expensive aircraft as a result of accidents. Since we have none of that danger in a flight simulator, it doesn't really make sense to rigidly hold to any notion that one must "start with a easier aircraft" unless that easier aircraft is one that they have a active interest in to begin with.

Perhaps I am digging myself into a even more controversial hole here but there are not really any basic skills that you can learn in a trainer like the L-39, C-101, or even the F-5 that you can't also learn in more complex modules like the A-10C, F-14, or F/A-18C or (if we are talking about entirely hands-on flying skills) the TF-51 that comes free with DCS.

That last bit leads into a big thing that I want to get into. Since DCS is a piece of entertainment software (albeit a very realistic one), one's first goal really should be to pick a aircraft module that really lights up their imagination. If you take the path where you pick a simpler aircraft as a way to "work your way up" to a more desired one, you running the risk of buying a trainer aircraft that you won't even touch after you move up to what you wanted to begin with. You will need to learn either way so you might as well just start with whatever aircraft really excites you in the first place.

This brings us back to the "overwhelmed" issue that you mentioned. To be bluntly honest. Whenever I see players getting overwhelmed with DCS, it is usually because they are making it harder on themselves in one or more of the following ways.

1.) Using incorrect or poorly formatted Youtube tutorials that actually make it harder for them to learn even if they are often more "entertaining".

2.) Trying to digest documentation like the manual or Chuck's guides as if they are a novel instead of just taking it one step at a time and using the manuals more like comprehensive checklists that they can follow at their own pace while in the sim.

3.) Letting others tell them to skip important parts of the learning process because those giving that advice find certain methods more "boring" than others.

4.) Jumping straight into competitive PvP without really giving themselves a chance to actually learn anything. Doing so will just result in smashing into a proverbial wall over and over without learning anything.

To be clear. I like the L-39 module a great deal. Every now and again, I find it super fun to fly. That being said, I only got it because I have a active interest in the real aircraft. I would never have bought it as a stepping stone to something else because unless one actively wants that aircraft specifically, there is no point in spending money on it as opposed to whatever other aircraft you think it will help you work up to.

[SSerponi76]

I have both and they are really good trainers. Personally I do prefer L-39.
BTW: if you are looking specifically for a trainer plane (i.e. interrested in improving your flying skills), check out the T-45 Ghoshawk, which is a free mod.

[VRFlightGuyInPJPants]

You mean T45?!

[SSerponi76]

Yes, sorry: T-45, not T-42

[CommandDork]

Between the two (which I have), I would give the edge to the L-39 for a newbie.

[van Leeuwenhoek's mustache]

L-39.

C-101 is powered by a hair dryer😅

[Cliff]

L-39 is the bomb

[Richardus]

Trainer planes that are currently available:
- Community FREE T-45 Goshawk (I have yet to try it)
- Frecce Tricolori FREE MB-339 (Somewhat simplified, but can do most basic trainer stuff. Quite fun and easy to fly, but it does not feature stuff like radio's and I'm not sure if the Navigation systems actually work)
- Yak-52
- L-39
- C-101

[SSerponi76]

Originally posted by Richardus:

- Frecce Tricolori FREE MB-339 (Somewhat simplified, but can do most basic trainer stuff. Quite fun and easy to fly, but it does not feature stuff like radio's and I'm not sure if the Navigation systems actually work)

Unfortuantely, the "Macchino" is not working anymore since 2.7.
Authors are working to add it as official ff module.

[akmatov]

>startrekmike: I understand your thoughts, but I've tried 'the pick a favorite ac' before and been so overwhelmed by the complexities and the not very good documentation, Chuck's Guides and a few of the YouTubes are vastly more helpful, that that was money wasted and my A-10C is collecting dust in the hanger. My goal with a L-39 is not to learn how to bank and turn, FSXer for years, but to restart with a less complex ac and focus on the system of DCS. Just for example I have the NS430, half good manual describing every page, and there are a lot of pages, but no examples of how to use it or why most of the pages are of any use. Goal is to become comfortable with just flying a less complex aircraft around DCS World and then focus on specifically DCS skills; navigation, radios, weapons delivery, mission building etc.

[akmatov]

>Richardus: Interesting list of trainer planes, some I didn't know of. I'll be looking into them.

[SSerponi76]

Originally posted by akmatov:

>startrekmike: I understand your thoughts, but I've tried 'the pick a favorite ac' before and been so overwhelmed by the complexities and the not very good documentation, Chuck's Guides and a few of the YouTubes are vastly more helpful, that that was money wasted and my A-10C is collecting dust in the hanger. My goal with a L-39 is not to learn how to bank and turn, FSXer for years, but to restart with a less complex ac and focus on the system of DCS.
...
Goal is to become comfortable with just flying a less complex aircraft around DCS World and then focus on specifically DCS skills; navigation, radios, weapons delivery, mission building etc.

L-39 is the plane I like to fly when I whant to turn DCSW in FSX and just flight.
iIt is wonderful plane but its navigation systems are russians, although similar to western ones they are not the same. If you plan to move to a Western plane after you "restart" maybe C-101 (the flying hair-dryer) of the T-45 might be a better option IMHO.

BTW: A-10C has a serie of dedicated trainign campaigns, from basics to tactical operations. Maybe they can help you clean some dust from your Warthog without passign through another module.

Originally posted by akmatov:

Just for example I have the NS430, half good manual describing every page, and there are a lot of pages, but no examples of how to use it or why most of the pages are of any use.

That's because the NS430 manual is more or less the same of the true device manual and just teach what you can do with the device, not how to do that. It is strange but usually man writers assumes that the users already know how to use a GPS navigation system.
How I know that? I've worked for 16 years as a software developer for a company that produces GPS navigations systems for naval an aeronautical puroses.