DCS World Steam Edition

DCS World Steam Edition

Questions regarding laser-guided bomb
May be I have used the wrong tactics, I do not very much get the merit of using laser-guided bombs. I am learning to use GBU and make a scenario to make bomb runs. I can acquire a target far away, but I still need to risk my neck and ingress within 3 NM to release the bomb.

Second, I fly the F/A-18C, and even in "auto" mode, I still have to flip on the laser before or after I release the bomb. Should I turn on the laser before or after the bomb? The laser turns itself off after the bomb reaches the ground anyway.
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Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
startrekmike Jan 28, 2021 @ 8:03am 
As in real life, laser guided bombs in DCS are useful because they can hit moving targets. For bombing static targets (like buildings or unoccupied vehicles), a JDAM, JSOW, or even a SLAM makes a lot more sense but for targets that might move, the laser guided bomb can pretty easily keep up and get hits.

One thing that is important to consider. In real life, a aircraft that is looking to drop LGB's is probably flying at 15,000 feet or more and probably only when escorted by a SEAD or defensive counter-air flight. Heck. Usually serious SAM threats are cleared out pretty aggressively so the escorts may not have a ton to do. Either way. In a realistic scenario, you wouldn't be tasked with dropping bombs in a area where getting inside a handful of miles will be a problem without some kind of escort/protection.
SSerponi76 Jan 28, 2021 @ 8:04am 
Originally posted by VRFlightGuyInPJPants:
May be I have used the wrong tactics, I do not very much get the merit of using laser-guided bombs. I am learning to use GBU and make a scenario to make bomb runs. I can acquire a target far away, but I still need to risk my neck and ingress within 3 NM to release the bomb.

3NM range seems completely strange, unless you are flying at low altitude.
In LGB bombing you need to start at high altitude: higher you are, the more distant you can drop bombs.
Altitude also protects you from AAA and SAMs (at least form older ones).


Originally posted by VRFlightGuyInPJPants:
Second, I fly the F/A-18C, and even in "auto" mode, I still have to flip on the laser before or after I release the bomb. Should I turn on the laser before or after the bomb? The laser turns itself off after the bomb reaches the ground anyway.

You can either start lase before or after release. In the second case, Keep in mind that you need turn laser on at least 30 seconds before the impact to allow the bomb to hit correctly.

IMHO start lasing before the release is better and safer.
Last edited by SSerponi76; Jan 28, 2021 @ 8:06am
spike2071 Jan 28, 2021 @ 8:21am 
Originally posted by SSerponi76:
You can either start lase before or after release. In the second case, Keep in mind that you need turn laser on at least 30 seconds before the impact to allow the bomb to hit correctly.

IMHO start lasing before the release is better and safer.

I learned that certain bombs (Paveway II, if I recall) had a "bang-bang" navigation system that greatly reduced their range if the laser was activated too early. Basically, when tracking the laser, the fins guiding the bomb could only deflect fully. This meant a lot of over-correcting if the laser was turned on too early, and would drastically decrease the range of the bomb. The idea was to let the natural arc guide the bomb close to the target before letting the laser tracking do the pinpoint work.

I think the A-10C tutorial mentions waiting until 10 seconds before impact before turning on the laser. In the Hornet, I let the computer trigger the laser, and it almost always does it with fewer than 30 seconds until impact. I'm a relative noob in the Hornet, though. In the Warthog, I set the computer to trigger the laser at 10-15 seconds until impact, and I consistently hit the target.

All of the above about Paveway II bombs is pointless with Paveway III bombs, as they have a much smoother flight path (fins can deflect only part of the way). I also don't know if any of this is actually modelled in the game. :P
Freeman Jan 28, 2021 @ 8:57am 
Typical LGB deployment. Pickle at 8 seconds to release (CCRP) Laser on at 6 seconds to release (HUD countdown timer.) At least for Viper drivers.
Thanks everyone for the informative replies.

1. I think I really should go back and read the history of Vietnam and the first Gulf War
2. I release GBU-12 at the altitude of 21K with a range about 3.4 NM from the target, in auto mode, with laser turned off. The auto-relase cue seems to have no difference in release timing whether I turned on the laser before or afterwards. So I am not sure firing up the laser beam too early has any effect on this.
3. I check a few time, even in auto mode, the laser does not turn itself on and I have missed due to this.
4. I think I can adjust the target designation even after the bomb has been released to increase accuracy, which is really cool.
5. I find that if the FoV is blocked, the bomb misses anyway regardless if I manage to regain laser guidance or not.
6. Too bad the watch track feature is so buggy or I coulld post something here so that I can make myself clearer.
spike2071 Jan 28, 2021 @ 11:01am 
Just to be clear, there are 2 things that need to happen to get the laser to fire. You need to Arm the laser with the physical switch on the right side of the cockpit. Then you need to Fire the laser either by using the Trigger or allowing the plane to do it automatically.

You need to have the laser Armed before you drop the bomb (physical switch On). You can then choose to manually Fire it (using the Trigger option) or not after you dropped the bomb. If you don't Fire the laser, then the bomb will likely miss.

Last time I checked the F/A-18 manual, they didn't have anything on the TGP. Check out Chuck's Guide[www.mudspike.com] on the Hornet for some step by step instructions.
Moriendor Jan 28, 2021 @ 11:24am 
Originally posted by SSerponi76:
IMHO start lasing before the release is better and safer.

This would also depend on the altitude at the time of release and the estimated time to impact. AFAIK, the main reason why the laser is usually activated after releasing the bomb is that the laser gets very hot very fast so you want to activate the laser as late as possible without risking a miss.
In a worst case scenario the laser might shut down before impact and you'd miss or the laser might even get damaged and become unusable until ground maintenance.

That's why LGBs are usually dropped like dumb bombs in the general direction of the target (where the targeting pod is pointing). The bomb will then free-fall for a few thousand feet (depending on altitude at time of release) and only then at 15s to 30s to impact will the laser be turned on for the "final approach" of the bomb to the target.

You can edit the time to impact that the laser is supposed to turn on in the DSMS. You could even do this on the ground before takeoff if you already know which scenario you will be facing or which altitude you will be at time of release.
Or you can, of course, change this when approaching the target area depending on weather conditions, enemy defenses and once you have figured out the altitude for the safest possible bomb release based on these factors.

In a nutshell you'll want the laser to be on as short as possible to avoid heat issues but as long as necessary to score a hit.
Last edited by Moriendor; Jan 28, 2021 @ 11:27am
If laser is to be fired as late as possible, would it be a better idea to manually fire it when I need to drop it multiple times in a mission?

BTW, what is DSMS? I am going to check the Chuck's Guide to F/A-18C too.
Wales Grey Jan 28, 2021 @ 8:54pm 
Originally posted by spike2071:
I learned that certain bombs (Paveway II, if I recall) had a "bang-bang" navigation system that greatly reduced their range if the laser was activated too early.
Originally posted by VRFlightGuyInPJPants:
If laser is to be fired as late as possible, would it be a better idea to manually fire it when I need to drop it multiple times in a mission?
Bang-Bang navigation (in real life, DCS is explicitly not real life and I do not know if this matters at all or is meaningfully modeled) converts the flat ballistic arc of a projectile into a sinusoidal wave. This can result in a reduced range in select release profiles, because the guidance system (like all guidance systems) "spends" energy from the weapon's "kinetic profile" to maneuver it onto a target.

According to un-/de-classified US DOD documents, the only time "late activation" for LGB designation matters is for the Paveway I/II, and only during a low-altitude loft maneuver deployment (i.e. toss bombing), so as to prevent the bomb from falling short. High-altitude diving releases (30 to 60 degree dive) can be designated at any time, but should be done early enough for the bomb to make flight path corrections and stabilize.

Originally posted by spike2071:
BTW, what is DSMS? I am going to check the Chuck's Guide to F/A-18C too.
Digital Stores Managment System.
Last edited by Wales Grey; Jan 28, 2021 @ 9:00pm
Originally posted by VRFlightGuyInPJPants:
I do not very much get the merit of using laser-guided bombs.

LGBs come in handy when you're in need of reliable precision weapons that don't get intercepted, can pack a big punch and have the ability to hit moving targets.
(They can even intercept airborne helicopters, believe it or not).

In the presence of Tunguskas (SA-19) or Tors (SA-15), JSOWs, HARMs and mavericks will get intercepted, JDAMs are too unreliable (50% hit chance, if you're lucky)... so you're left with LGBs (since the hornet can't carry cbu-97/105).

Also, the heavier LGBs are perfect for hitting bunkers and warships (walleyes hit even harder).


Originally posted by VRFlightGuyInPJPants:
I can acquire a target far away, but I still need to risk my neck and ingress within 3 NM to release the bomb.

LGB runs need to be performed at altitude, outside the SAM umbrella.

Check the threat overview table for altitude reference: https://wiki.hoggitworld.com/view/Threat_Database

Basically, if you fly above 26k ft you'll be safe from any shorads and manpads in DCS (if there are merads and lorads around, that's another story).


Originally posted by VRFlightGuyInPJPants:
Second, I fly the F/A-18C, and even in "auto" mode, I still have to flip on the laser before or after I release the bomb. Should I turn on the laser before or after the bomb? The laser turns itself off after the bomb reaches the ground anyway.

I haven't used the hornet since last year, so things might've changed, but I do remember that auto-lasing was unreliable (laser would fire too late and cut too early).
So I decided to switch to manual lasing, which yielded much better results.

I'd use auto mode to handle bomb release, then manually fire the laser ~10 seconds before the calculated autolase trigger and keep it on until impact.
Last edited by van Leeuwenhoek's mustache; Jan 28, 2021 @ 11:54pm
IIRC, a Iraqi Mi-8 was killed, above ground, by a Paveway II released by F-18 during the first Gulf War.

Let me run a practice mission with Tor and fin out.

When I make 4 bomb runs, only 2 out of 4 hits using auto laser. I may be me or it may be the latest open beta. Need more experiments
Last edited by VRFlightGuyInPJPants; Jan 28, 2021 @ 11:31pm
The secret is in the approach and knowing when to start firing the laser.

You need to keep the aircraft aligned, straight and stable as the countdown runs, to ensure a proper glide path. Also, fire the laser at the right time (10 seconds before the calculated autolase trigger should be enough).

Finally, if you miss the release queue, don't try any funny stuff to force the computer to recalculate, just turn around and go for another pass, otherwise your LGB is likely to miss.

PS: Also, make sure to manually introduce the laser code in each station, don't try any shortcuts (like using the previously introduced code, instead of introducing it again)
Last edited by van Leeuwenhoek's mustache; Jan 29, 2021 @ 12:03am
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Date Posted: Jan 28, 2021 @ 7:41am
Posts: 12