What joystick do you use and how much did you pay for it?

[Obi-Rotta]

Trying to find out new good budged joystick to replace my s*** Logitech 3D pro.

[fikmeinshizer]

thrustmaster T16000M is decent and cheap especially if you can nab it with the throttle and pedals to go with

[Obi-Rotta]

Nice, I have been actually looking at that model.
How long have you been using it and how has age treated it?
I mean does it perform as good as when you bought it, or is there deadzone or stick drift etc?

[Troll Norris]

I have Virpil moongoos T-50 with T-50 grip and lenght extension and desk mount console. Not sure but the price was around 450 USD. I use it with the TMHW throttle which costs around 270 USD right now.

[-OrLoK- Слава Україн]

Ive only heard comparatively good things about the t1600M set. Its not perfect but all round apparently is well liked.

Id avoid the Warthog set, whilst not bad, if one can splash a bit more cash, go for the next step up with a Virpil/VKB etc.

Just keep an eye on those import taxes if applicable. They can be a killer.

All the above mentioned will last a long time if treated well

[fikmeinshizer]

I've used mine for a good 2 years now and have no drama with the T16000. I've had to put a small deadzone on the rudder pedals but that's it. My only real complaint is the rocker on the throttle is pretty naff and tends to give wobbly input. For it's price I really can't complain at all.

That said, there are plenty of instances of people having dramas with it. Sadly thrusmaster stuff all tends to suffer from a lack of quality control. One set might last 10 years and another of the same model might only last 10 minutes.

So long as you don't get a duff set, the T16000 should do you nicely until you can get something more up market

[van Leeuwenhoek's mustache]

I also replaced my old 3D pro with T16000 (+ TWCS throttle) about 5 years ago, here are the pros and cons I found.

PROS:

- Hall sensors for X and Y axes. which are accurate and don't ever jitter, lose alignment or cause any trouble (unlike potentiometers)

- Symmetrical design, which allows for dual joystick setup (can be used with either hand without imposing an ergonomic penalty)

- Sturdy enough to last for years

- Reasonably priced and good bang for the buck (at pre COVID prices)

- Compatible with TARGET, if you care about such things


CONS:

- It uses a potentiometer for the Z axis (twist), which, in my case, started causing jitter and alignment issues after 3 years.
(Note that this can be fixed by opening up the stick, cleaning the pot and turning it full range in both directions... but it's still a nuisance)

- Button placement on the stick could be better (I prefer the 3D pro in this regard)

- It could use a few more stick buttons (I also prefer the 3D pro in this regard)

- Thrustmaster decided to shove a tiny metal rod across the trigger piece, in order to keep it in place. This makes disassembly of the stick harder than it needs to be, since it can't be opened without removing this trigger piece.
The tiny metal rod can be removed using a small hammer and a "chisel" (I use a thin precision screwdriver as "chisel")... it's still a pita, let me tell you.



If you find a stick with more buttons (and better placed) that uses hall sensors on all axes and costs roughly the same, definitely go for that one.

Alternatively, you could get the T16000 and replace the twist axis pot with a hall sensor + tiny magnets (some users have pulled it off and reported good results, I might even try it myself).


Bottom line: stay away from joysticks that use pots.

[Obi-Rotta]

OK nice! thanks for useful info.
3D pro is otherwise really good, It is just too unaccurate after usage.
Maybe I will not get T16000m but something else...

[Maki Nishikino]

VKB Gladiator NXT - $150.

[Mysterious Drone]

Logitech X-56

[bingbean]

I have been using the T1600m FCS HOTAS for several years and I was satisfied. Five years ago, I paid 110 EUR for this combo. Now in most stores the price is around 150Euro. Before I started flying DCS, I didn't need to upgrade this combo in any way. The sensitivity and accuracy of the HAL sensor is phenomenal, and in WW2 games I had no problem controlling the aircraft and aiming at the target. In arcade games like Ace combat or project wingman where I just had to map 5-6 buttons, I was fine.
In DCS, I mapped all 4 positions of the HAT switch to the TWCS throttle as modifiers, so I had 5 functions mapped to all 4 directions of the HAT switch and some other buttons on the T16000m. Without modifier + 4 additional functions with modifiers. You could get used to it, but I still felt like I needed more buttons within reach of my thumb, or other fingers with my hand on the stick. So I decided to replace the T16000m joystick with a VKB gladiator NXT PRO, which has 4 x 5-way hats, 5 buttons and a two-stage trigger on the stick. At the base of another 7 buttons. With VKB, I only need one modifier to cover all the important functions directly on the joystick. With transport, it cost me less than 200 euros. It's not a little, but it's still the cheapest joystick with such ergonomics with so many buttons right on the stick.
Personally, I think that for modern fighters in DCS, the combination of VKB gladiator NXT PRO + thrustmaster twcs throttle is currently the best in the price / performance ratio that is currently on the market. For helicopters, it would probably also want rudder pedals and maybe a joystick with the possibility of extension, but it is already in another price category.

[SSerponi76]

Hotas Warthog + F/A-18 grip.
Around 600€ (450 + 150)

[startrekmike]

So it is important to note (though perhaps saying so might be controversial) that the T.16000 HOTAS is designed to be a entry level HOTAS setup and while this in itself isn't a bad thing, it should be a factor if you are looking to upgrade from a entry level stick. It is a decent setup but the stick Thrustmaster used is really just a repackaging of their standalone, entry level T.16000 stick and as such, it really won't give you much in terms of raw functionality that you don't already have with your Logitech. It will be more accurate but you are not going to really gain any functionality on the stick itself.

The big thing here is that you should probably take a step back and really look at what you want out of a HOTAS, what your budget realistically is, and what that budget will get you. Another thing to consider is if you can realistically and comfortably save up a bit and really go for the most "bang for the buck".

The big thing that really keeps me from recommending the T.16000 (assuming you have the budget or saving potential to beyond it) is the stick. The throttle is okay (though perhaps not really all that great) but the stick really is a poor design for a HOTAS. Since Thrustmaster simply repackaged their standalone entry level T.16000, it has two major issues as a HOTAS stick.

1.) It has only one hat switch and FAR too few buttons on the stick. This may not seem like a big deal for everyone but when you start getting into the A-10C, F/A-18C, F-16C, and JF-17, you will REALLY want more than one hat switch on your stick.

2.) Since the stick is simply a repackaging of their existing standalone, entry level T.16000 stick, it has buttons and a throttle axis on the base which really doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a HOTAS where one of your hands is on the stick and the other on the separate throttle. You can still use those buttons but they will not be in a great place and that cuts into their usefulness in a big way.

Again. If that is really all you can afford and it isn't possible or practical to save up for something better, you could do a lot worse (the Thrustmaster HOTAS-X comes to mind as a absolutely pointless "HOTAS" solution).

If you can budget for something better, there are a some other options.

1.) The Logitech X56. In terms of functionality, it is actually one of the better HOTAS setups out there. You have a lot of useful controls and they are generally well placed. It also helps that it is not super-duper expensive. Sadly. There are some bad sides to consider. The first is that it REQUIRES a powered USB 3 hub because the throttle draws much more power than it really should. If you just plug it into a unpowered USB port, you are likely to get "ghost inputs" where various controls on the throttle (mostly buttons and switches) will activate randomly and that can really, really mess up your flight in a big way.

The X56 is originally a Saitek design and as such, it uses very cheap electronic components. This doesn't always (despite popular belief online) mean that it will outright fail but it does mean that your potentiometers will always jitter and the general quality of the switches, buttons, and axis's will not really be great.

2.) The Thrustmaster Warthog. This is where you start getting into the higher end of HOTAS's. Obviously it isn't the best one you can possibly get but it is a solid, accurate, reliable solution with enough controls to generally be useful across all the current DCS modules. If I have one problem with the Warthog, it is that it set a trend of "replica" HOTAS setups that compromise overall versatility in favor of what essentially amounts to flight sim cosplay.

There are going to be some on various forums and the like that will say the Warthog is of poor quality and that it will break. A lot of that is hyperbole. It isn't the best setup you can get and there are no doubt owners that have had problems (as will be the case with everything) but in my experience, the Warthog is pretty solid and pretty reliable.

3.) Winwing. Another company that really focuses more on "replica" HOTAS setups. Winwing is still a pretty new company and while their designs seem solid, it is still up in the air as to how well they hold up in the long term.

4.) VKB. This is where you start getting into the upper end of high-end consumer HOTAS's. VKB's stuff isn't bad but they do seem to really like the idea of building up a somewhat closed ecosystem. A lot of folks seem to love their Gladiator model but since that is essentially yet another entry-level targeted standalone stick, I am not really sure if it will really ever compare to a HOTAS.

5.) Virpil. While they are expensive, they are also probably the best consumer level HOTAS maker out there. They do a bit of the "replica" thing with their sticks but they are also (thankfully) not afraid to alter things for the sake of versatility and functionality. Their throttle follows the same logic and is probably one of the best designs in flight simming (at the moment). The only real downsides are that they are expensive and that they are really going for players who mount their sticks and throttles as opposed to just sitting them on top of their desks. This isn't a big deal since building mounts is VERY cheap and VERY easy (you don't need to spend hundreds on mounts at all).

I won't tell you to get any one of these specifically but I will say that if you can budget for something better than a T.16000, do so. Sometimes the best bang for the buck isn't the cheapest option.

[van Leeuwenhoek's mustache]

Originally posted by SSerponi76:

Hotas Warthog + F/A-18 grip.
Around 600€ (450 + 150)

Budget stick, right there 😅

[SSerponi76]

Originally posted by van Leeuwenhoek's mustache:

Originally posted by SSerponi76:

Hotas Warthog + F/A-18 grip.
Around 600€ (450 + 150)

Budget stick, right there 😅

Yes, not cheap at all but woth any single cent.

[Richardus]

Current setup:

VKB NXT Premium, €180
(Recommended if you can spare the cash, excellent in every regard. Best stick I've had so far)

Saitek X55 Throttle, €40 secondhand
(Loads of inputs, good accuracy on the throttles. Unfortunately this type is known for severe Build Quality/QC/Reliability issues)

Thrustmaster TFRP, €50 bought secondhand unused
(Not the best, quite rough and it's not easy to make precise movements. Legs are very close together, may be uncomfortable. On the plus side it is very compact and can fit in places that are too small for bigger rudder sets)


Stuff I've used in the past:

Saitek X55 HOTAS
(Stick has terrible ergonomics and centering mechanism, sensor is actually really good. If you're willing to work around the quirks and can snag one for <$80, then it's an excellent deal. Check above for throttle info)

Saitek X52 HOTAS
(Centering spring is WAY too soft, almost no feedback. The inputs are a plus, and the stick is adjustable for hand size. Recommended if you can find it secondhand for $25-45 or so)

Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals
(Prefer these over the TFRP in terms of comfort. Precision-wise I feel they are equal. Better options can be found if you have a bit more $$$)

Thrustmaster T16000 stick, green version
(Meh. After all the hype it's kind of disappointing. Sensor is awesome, but the centering mechanism isn't smooth enough to take advantage of it. Also very limited on-stick inputs)

Saitek AV8R
(After lubing the shaft, giggity, it's quite smooth. One of the few budget sticks that has a dual throttle. Might be a good match for warbirds considering the design)

Logitech Extreme 3D Pro
(Pretty solid, had it for 8 years or so. Can't do a direct comparison with T16000 since I sold it, but I have better memories of this one than the Thrustmaster)