Is it possible to fly the Ka-50 using only a keyboard and mouse?

[Mike Oxlong]

as said in the title of the discussion, is it possible to fly the Ka-50 using only mouse and keyboard?, I'am one of these guys that play DCS using only a keyboard and mouse and so far i only have FC3, i was thinking about getting the Ka-50 because i like Russian stuff and its a cool little helicopter.

[startrekmike]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von razoleg (The Cunning Fox):

Yes, sure, you draw them a tree of the possibilities. But if you look at these posts, you always get a few people who are like "Get this stuff, it's impossible to fly without it". I'm not saying it's a cheap hobby, but one has to get interested first. If you're interested -- you will find the money and the only people who ask questions about keyboard are hesitant and are buckling under pressure whether to invest anything at all. That's why the advice should boil down to "try it". Cheap joystick -- sure, but first -- try it.

Actually, there isn't anything I can't do without the equipment. Inverted refueling? Maybe. I would also probably shove the keyboard into the screen, and then throw the screen at the first person I see after my thousandth attempt, even if I am successful. It's not impossible, just infuriatingly frustrating, and I personally play these things to relax. The therapist and a lawyer costs more than a mediocre joystick with a good spring and smooth movements.

Also, as I've shown here before -- even one of the real pilots who tried DCS did not use tracking, to support my case whether it's "absolutely necessary" or not. But I won't repeat myself for the fear of the TrackIR hoggit inquisition/mafia breaking down my metal door if I continue for another sentence.

It just feels... weird. I move my head to look at things around my room, my screen, et cetera... TrackIR I feel like my head needs to be in the right position all the time and only my eyes move, even if I set the curves right. It's like when you're trying to break your eyeball bearings looking at a stranger, who's walking too close behind you on an empty street at night, whilst trying not to make it obvious. :grin:

You begin feel just like this meme: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/awkward-look-monkey-puppet

I did find that head tracking took some degree of getting used to. When I was still using my DIY set up and Freetrack, I had to do a lot of adjustments to curves, sensitivity, and such to get it to feel good for me. When I got TrackIR, I think I only spent like five or ten minutes doing very minor sensitivity adjustments to get it where I wanted.

That being said, I did find that there was a bit of a learning curve but after using it for a few hours and not fighting it, I got used to it and now don't even really notice when I am using it. I do have to keep my head a little more still at specific times but for the most part, it feels very, very natural.

[van Leeuwenhoek's mustache]

@razoleg (The Cunning Fox)

It's pretty obvious (from the issues you described) that your headtracking system either isn't properly set up or you haven't spent the time to get used to it (or maybe both).

Unnatural and erratic outputs as you move your head are definitely a sign of improper configuration / lighting.

Also, it's normal to feel kind of dizzy and uncomfortable at first, because you're not used to have to keep your head around the same area... but you get used to it after a while.

Like Startrekmike said, it comes a point where you just don't notice it anymore (provided the clip and the cable are sufficiently lightweight, firmly attached and don't restrict movement).

As for the merits of headtracking, the natural padlock view ability it provides is priceless, as is the ability to defeat visual obstacles (with translational movements of the head).

[The Cunning Fox (raZoleg)]

I tried setting the system up a few times and actually pull it out of the closet from time to time, played with tracking as well (I think I’ve done a campaign a few years back with it). If I actually get down to making it right — my curves are mint. Still, the movement feels sort of unnatural. The problem is, I often don’t quite get it as good as youtubers show it to be, which is smooth. Sensors lose track. Like I said, I’ve done many experiments and it’s just not me. Maybe I’ll come back to it, but I am used to looking at my phone during flight and other things, reading stuff, checking manuals et cetera. Also, with a push of a button I can look behind me to check guages on my Mustang, or beneath my feet.

I know there is a button to disconnect or to recenter it, but it gets tedious after a while and/or ends up off-centre, so you have to alt-tab to the software to reconfig it.

The hard part with the tit is that you need to assign a hat on the throttle to exclusively move your head, and a button to reset view. I never actually had problems with this, albeit it being awkward to a degree. But with tracking you don’t have a problem of assigning controls to look around and losing buttons.

[startrekmike]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von razoleg (The Cunning Fox):

I tried setting the system up a few times and actually pull it out of the closet from time to time, played with tracking as well (I think I’ve done a campaign a few years back with it). If I actually get down to making it right — my curves are mint. Still, the movement feels sort of unnatural. The problem is, I often don’t quite get it as good as youtubers show it to be, which is smooth. Sensors lose track. Like I said, I’ve done many experiments and it’s just not me. Maybe I’ll come back to it, but I am used to looking at my phone during flight and other things, reading stuff, checking manuals et cetera. Also, with a push of a button I can look behind me to check guages on my Mustang, or beneath my feet.

I know there is a button to disconnect or to recenter it, but it gets tedious after a while and/or ends up off-centre, so you have to alt-tab to the software to reconfig it.

The hard part with the tit is that you need to assign a hat on the throttle to exclusively move your head, and a button to reset view. I never actually had problems with this, albeit it being awkward to a degree. But with tracking you don’t have a problem of assigning controls to look around and losing buttons.

Your curves might be fine but what you are describing is most certainly not how it should be when it is working as intended. You should not have situations where the sensor loses track or where it doesn't feel smooth. If you are experiencing that kind of thing, there is an issue somewhere in terms of settings or even other light sources your camera/sensor is picking up.

Here are some things to look out for next time you give it a shot.

1.) Glasses. This is an annoying one but if you are just using the hat clip (and not the TrackClip Pro thing with the LED's), the camera shines a IR light that will reflect off glasses lenses. This will cause disconnects and the like.

2.) Not setting sensitivity high enough will mean you turn too much and the LED's get obstructed. Having a higher sensitivity may seem awkward at first but it is effective and becomes comfortable quickly.

3.) Windows facing the camera/sensor (unless properly covered) will shine light that will create disconnects. You don't need to black out a room but you don't want a window or even a light bulb right in direct view of the camera.

4.) Camera/sensor position. You will want to make sure your IR clip is centered on the camera as best as you can. This might mean moving around the camera to get a good angle. If it is not center, you will be making it work harder to track than it really should be.

5.) Genuinely give yourself a chance to get used to it. Don't go into it expecting to hate it or something like that. Just give it a go and work with it a while. It doesn't take long to get used to as long as you are willing to give it an honest chance and are willing to deal with the rather minor inconvenience of having to kinda adjust the settings here and there as you go at first.

[The Cunning Fox (raZoleg)]

I’ve tried some of these points, especially not having much light or windows in the background. The problem I’ve had it since August 2015… just about, if my memory serves me correct, and I’ve been giving it a go every year or so, maybe once I set up my whole “cockpit” I can do it properly. Appreciate it, Mike. Qapla’!