F18 vs heli fight

[FurryZilla]

Hi, how should I fight against helicopters? I don't see them on the radar, I can't take them into the target from the HUD (when its active sensor). Only thing I found is to launch an aim 7 in close range without lock (cuz i cant).

[Psyanide]

They will appear on radar but they'll likely be low level which complicates locating, tracking and locking beyond 10-20 or so miles. To lock a target in front of you in visual range simply set your selected weapon to either bore-sight, or horizontal/vertical acquisition mode (or HACQ/VACQ respectively) by using sensor control switch (SCS) forward for boresight, and I think left or right for HACQ and aft for VACQ. In these modes you'll lock up the first target that enters the boresight/horizontal line or vertical line depending on the ACQ mode.
Generally I'd use boresight for most fights and vertical for dog fighting, never really used HACQ yet.

Just to clarify, you select your weapon, aim9/7/120 and then press SCS forward essentially telling the missile seeker to look directly forward. Once you are in boresight you can then select H/VACQ but I don't think you can select them before going to boresight, might be wrong on that. Has no IFF functionality though so much like aim-9s check your lock before release when friendlies are close.

[van Leeuwenhoek's mustache]

Fly as low as them and you'll start picking them up on radar.

Another option is to rely on the 9x heat seeker, it's pretty good at detecting helos, but you need to be close.

[Borat Sagdiyev]

VS HMS bore sight

[FurryZilla]

I tryed to do as you said but still nothing :( And I tryed to lock them with different alt, angle and etc. I also tryed to lock diff type of heli. What am I doing wrong?

https://youtu.be/cGsLdpYy1g0

[Snork]

Helis are really best dealt with via your heat tracking AIM-9s.

However, given the low altitude and relatively lower speed at which they travel, they present several problems you need to solve as a jet pilot.

The speed disparity is major, it is hard to engage a hovering helicopter from a jet that is traveling at mach 1 +.

Also, an issue you may be running into is your F-18s weaponry is designed mainly to engage targets at or above the median/horizon line as measured relative to the nose.

Essentially, helicopters tend to be below you and your jets air to air weaponry is not at all psyched to engage targets at a significant angle below the nose.

Your ideal targeting looks like /_ basically, as opposed to <.

So the key to targeting the heli is to lower your altitude, start your attack run from what feels like very far away (several kilometers at least) and finally take into consideration their available countermeasures.

Since they are low, slow high value targets they tend to have a HEAVY amount of protection from your typical heat seeking launcher (consider heli risk from MAN-PADs for example)

So in order to defeat this, you'll want to follow either an american method or the russian one. The american method is to fire more missiles. IE Fire three AIM-9x, rather than one.

The russian method is to also to fire more missiles, but rather than them all being AIM-9x, fire several missiles but each one has a different tracking regime.

So you prepare to fire an AIM-7, an AMRAAM and another two AIM-9s. This way no one counter measure can disrupt all avenues of attack.

FINALLY the best method to handle a hovering heli adversary is to use the cannon your country saw fit to install in your jet. There's no countermeasure that stops these massive rounds, and what were advantages to the heli become crippling disadvantages when their attacker is a determined jet jockey with a confident use of their cannon - since the heli is literally standing still as far as the jet is concerned.

So in addition to the methods described above, your best bet for weapons for helis are

Cannon, heat seeking, radar guided.

Another thing you may not have tried are hellfires. Helis are very vulnerable to TV and laser guided weaponry, but it takes a higher skill curve on the part of the jet pilot to employ them.

The air to ground missiles employed by the Su-25t are freaking amazing at killing helicopters, because they are sleeved with a fragmentation layer that makes them good at "close enough" kills, especially given their proximity fuse.

[FurryZilla]

Originally posted by Snork:

Helis are really best dealt with via your heat tracking AIM-9s.

However, given the low altitude and relatively lower speed at which they travel, they present several problems you need to solve as a jet pilot.

The speed disparity is major, it is hard to engage a hovering helicopter from a jet that is traveling at mach 1 +.

Also, an issue you may be running into is your F-18s weaponry is designed mainly to engage targets at or above the median/horizon line as measured relative to the nose.

Essentially, helicopters tend to be below you and your jets air to air weaponry is not at all psyched to engage targets at a significant angle below the nose.

Your ideal targeting looks like /_ basically, as opposed to <.

So the key to targeting the heli is to lower your altitude, start your attack run from what feels like very far away (several kilometers at least) and finally take into consideration their available countermeasures.

Since they are low, slow high value targets they tend to have a HEAVY amount of protection from your typical heat seeking launcher (consider heli risk from MAN-PADs for example)

So in order to defeat this, you'll want to follow either an american method or the russian one. The american method is to fire more missiles. IE Fire three AIM-9x, rather than one.

The russian method is to also to fire more missiles, but rather than them all being AIM-9x, fire several missiles but each one has a different tracking regime.

So you prepare to fire an AIM-7, an AMRAAM and another two AIM-9s. This way no one counter measure can disrupt all avenues of attack.

FINALLY the best method to handle a hovering heli adversary is to use the cannon your country saw fit to install in your jet. There's no countermeasure that stops these massive rounds, and what were advantages to the heli become crippling disadvantages when their attacker is a determined jet jockey with a confident use of their cannon - since the heli is literally standing still as far as the jet is concerned.

So in addition to the methods described above, your best bet for weapons for helis are

Cannon, heat seeking, radar guided.

Another thing you may not have tried are hellfires. Helis are very vulnerable to TV and laser guided weaponry, but it takes a higher skill curve on the part of the jet pilot to employ them.

The air to ground missiles employed by the Su-25t are freaking amazing at killing helicopters, because they are sleeved with a fragmentation layer that makes them good at "close enough" kills, especially given their proximity fuse.

Thank you for your detailed answer :) Looks like I have a lot to learn :D I found that aim-9 can lock on target by heating (as I understood it) with cage/uncage. Its a little bit tricky, but working all the time. And as I understood I don't need to lock targets with aim-9 at all - I can simply launch it in towards of enemy, they'll find their targets if it's in their range

[Snork]

You're very welcome. Contact/message etc me any time! I truly love this stuff, and I'm happy to help with any of the DCS aircraft at any time. I'm a bit of a nerd about the russian stuff, but I fly the F-14, 16, 18 and JF-17, A-10 etc as well.

Which reminds me. The JF-17 is the single awesomest aircraft for the dollars in a real life sense and in terms of its programming quality, it's amazing. Minor features and details that other older modules still don't have, it has running perfectly. Also, it has a variety of super long range glider and cruise missile type ordnance that I freakin love.

Finally, the chinese missiles it uses are ultra modern and frequently out perform even American AMRAAMS (120c)

But Yes, this is true regarding the AIM 9x. Keep in mind though that you're very unlikely to achieve a positive result firing the AIM-9 prior to a lock because the range really is quite short. If you don't have a lock prior to firing, the odds of it achieving one after leaving the rail, burning fuel and still having enough oomph left to maneuver itself into a target... Well it's super slim you can imagine.

So just use your hearing, rather than your eyes to establish a positive lock - that annoying growl changes to a steady tone, and fire once you have tone.

Radar guided missiles though are able to be far more successful if you fire them without a lock, since they will activate their own radar and lock the first target they see on radar (so be careful when firing in this manner - doing so is considered to be something like firing from the hip - you don't want to accidentally kill your wingman - the missile won't care whose side its on once it gets a lock.

The 9x also has some fairly incredible features you should try to use. Namely what they call high off boresight target acquisition which becomes overpoweringly effective in combination with helmet mounted sights.

This means you can look at a target and the missile will lock based on your eye-line, even if the target is nowhere near in front of you (perhaps it's directly above, or flying along side you) This is a recent development in heat seeking technology, cutting edge stuff.

If you lock in this fashion, you'll find that the AIM-9x also has the ability to fire at the same target that's nowhere near in front of you. Basically it fall off your rail and immediately make a hard turn allowing you to lock on, fire and successfully destroy an adversary that is basically flying parallel to you - saving you the need to achieve a traditional high 6oclock kill position.

So if you have one of those eye trackers or a VR headset, you can use the helmet mounted sight and this thing will make your life so much easier. It's the single most powerful dogfighting tool any of the most modern jets have.

(The Russians also have helmet mounted sights and high off boresight missiles available in the Su-27, 33 etc)

The KA-50 heli even has a helmet cued sight that automatically points its chin cannon at whatever your eye is pointed at. For me it was the difference between 5% accuracy and 95%

[Snork]

I know I rambled long enough already but one final note.

For anyone who's figuring helicopters will be a nice and easy practice target, you'd be much better off using the passenger jet as a practice target.

It keeps up a reasonable speed but is too slow to maneuver out of the way, and of course it has no weapons or countermeasures.

The name is KC-something or other. I used them as AirForce One stand ins for a few missions I made at some point.

[FurryZilla]

Originally posted by Snork:

I know I rambled long enough already but one final note.

For anyone who's figuring helicopters will be a nice and easy practice target, you'd be much better off using the passenger jet as a practice target.

It keeps up a reasonable speed but is too slow to maneuver out of the way, and of course it has no weapons or countermeasures.

The name is KC-something or other. I used them as AirForce One stand ins for a few missions I made at some point.

Once when I was playing DCS I remembered about world in conflict (great game) and there was ability to call the interceptors to strike down the helis, so I wanted to try it in this game :D

Thank you again for your post :)

[van Leeuwenhoek's mustache]

As a rule of thumb, don't use HACQ or LHAQ to try to lock helos, it won't work most of the time.
Use vertical scan or the 9x heat seeker if regular TWS (with narrow azimuth and bars) is unable to pick them up.