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T16000m HOTAS FCS is the best in the current entry spot believe me. It's not sexy, but functional.
The stick is using the same sensor as the Warthog. The HOTAS sensitivity can be adjusted to your liking. The pedals do their job if you set curves. It's the most complete HOTAS set on the market unless you can afford the Warthog.
Using two modifier keys and I don't have to get my hands off it flying high fidelity modules. It's unbeatable for the price currently.
X52 is uncomfortable with small hands, pov hat layout is dumb as the hats on the stick get in the way all the time. The spring system is not even close to the precision of the t16000 sensor. It looks nice on pictures but feels very plastic and it's draining USB power. You'll probably need an external USB hub to prevent ghosting issues. And it costs roughly 100 bucks more without pedals.
So maybe try to get your hands on the Warthog and never look back again! But the T16000m will def not let you down!
Oh and btw: I like the hotas that much that I'm currently trying to get me a Warthog stick only for a good price. Because the only disadvantage is the button layout of the stick and the two missing hats compared to the warthog. The throttle works like a charm.
You can start with the stick only or the stick+throttle combo if your buget allows it.
TFRP pedals are a nice addiction too, but you can still buy them later.
X56 has way more options but lower precision and if you take the spring out it functions quite well as a helo stick.
I realised when reading the above that the era of aircraft probably has as much impact to what kind of stick as whether I am playing MSFS vs DCS... I am more inclined to the modern era which will inevitably mean more button presses, but from the above it sounds like the T.16000M will do the trick.
So I will go with the consensus and look to get the T.16000M. Availability is really low at the moment. I can see it for £140 from a retailer that looks a little odd, so might hold on for stock elsewhere. The Thrustmaster store cheekily has the HOTAS out of stock, but the full FCS with pedals in stock for £199. Not sure I really need the pedals so will try and wait for more HOTAS stock, but I may give in.
Look forward to chatting more once i get set up and ready to go!
Well, pedals allows you a better control over ruder (and wheelbrakes) but they are not necessary since with T-160000 you can control rudder using stick grip twist or the small handle on the throttle front.
The handle on the throttle front, (rocker axis) sometimes will develop a defect and give ghost inputs. It happened to me and when I googled it, it seemed quite common. There are some temporary repair possible, but I completely suck at DIY.
The rest of the T16000 works w/o problems.
To OP, I'd say the best is maybe to buy the pack with rudders, so if you want to upgrade to the warthog, you already have them. (with warthog you really need the pedals). You'll just need to get the usb adapter later. (with the pack, the rudder plugs into the throttle).
Agree.
I have a warthog and I'm using the TFRP (the T-16000 pedals)
While it might be a controversial thing to say, the Thrustmaster T.16000 FCS gets a lot of good reviews because it is affordable. It is the kind of setup that isn't too difficult to justify so a lot of folks are going to buy it as their first HOTAS and sing its praises via reviews and the like. This isn't a bad thing but it doesn't really tell you the whole story either.
As some who frequent this forum might know, I tend to compare the HOTAS buying community to the guitar buying community. When many teenagers start playing electric guitar, their first purchase is often a $150 to $300 Squier or Epiphone. These brands are essentially the entry level for Fender and Gibson respectively. If you were to read reviews of said Squier and Epiphone guitars online, you might think that these are the best guitars ever and seriously question why anyone would want to buy a $1000 Fender or Gibson. In reality, those reviews are often written by folks who only have ever really owned and played that Squier or Epiphone and don't really have the experience or context to judge their value in comparison to something more expensive.
With this in mind, it is fairly common to meet experienced guitar players who don't hate Squiers or Epiphones but have learned from experience that they are firmly entry level for very real reasons.
HOTAS setups are kinda like that. For the person who has only owned a entry level HOTAS setup like the T.16000 FCS, it is tough not to see it as a fantastic, capable setup that punches above its weight because that person doesn't have a lot of experience with the other choices on the market.
What I am getting at here is that you kinda have to be a bit skeptical of entry level product reviews. This isn't to say that something like the T.160000 is bad but only that it is entry level for a reason. With the T.16000 FCS, you get a stick that was originally designed and sold as a stand-alone unit. It is not a bad stick but it is not a good one for a HOTAS setup since it has only one hat switch and buttons on the base (which means much of your stick's functionality will require you to remove your hand from the throttle).
As far as the throttle goes, it is pretty good for a entry level unit but the sliding mechanism isn't a great design that can make things a bit harder for you since you can't easily "feel" where the throttle is position at.
One more issue to consider. If you ever intend to mount your stick and throttle to your desk (not on top but instead using adjustment desk mounts for either a nice center or side-stick configuration), you will find the size of the base of the stick to be a pretty big issue.
Again. It isn't a bad setup but it is a entry level setup for a reason. If you are okay with that, go for it. If you want something that you can grow into that you will not eventually reach some limits with, it might be better to go for something better right off the bat.
I am definitely looking for something to last a little while and act as more than just a newbie stick...but as above I don't quite see myself mounting stick/throttles and am not going to aim for a really pro set-up... so that is not a real concern for me. The button layout is the thing that gets me more.
I suppose one reason I am finding it hard to fully decide is that I feel like I want the functionality of the Saitek/Logitech sticks (in terms of buttons etc) but with the T.16000M quality/ratings! Maybe the only way to get that though is the Warthog. It may sound like a small thing but the idea of paying twice as much for something that doesn't give rudder functionality feels not quite right.
The good thing is that with pretty much zero stock out there at the moment i probably have a bit of time to chew on it.
That is true but not a big deal at all. Simply solution is to add a deadzone to this axis to prevent the ghosting. I'm using the Throttle rudder for zoom as I use pedals for rudder inputs.
And about what @Startrekmike pointed out I disagree here.
The T16000m setup is very solid and offers everything you need to be competitive in DCS. Everything above this is basically purism. It's the best and most complete set available on the market currently. Just because it's entry level equip doesn't mean it's low quality or lacking of capabilities. Having a Warthog is great, but not necessary. And it will still leave you having to buy seperate rudders which at least will cost 100 - 150 extra. So that would be 600-700 compared to 150.
And comparing this to a guitar is also not very viable. Guitars all sound different no matter what price range. Even if you compare Gibson vs Gibson there are huge differences and there many more factors that make a sound of a guitar so that's only subjective. Of course the quality of materials are a huge difference comparing Epiphone and Gibos. A hand made guitar is def not the same like one out of mass production. But that doesn't mean Epiphone would be a bad choice. Having an Epi custom model for 600-700 bucks can be a better purchase than going for a standart Gibson for around 1000-1200 bucks. So it's not like black and white.
*edit* about the mounts https://www.amazon.de/Thrustmaster-4060174-TM-Flying-Clamp/dp/B089ZCH3KY/ref=asc_df_B089ZCH3KY/?tag=googshopde-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=447510326397&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18084838488600440490&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9068240&hvtargid=pla-925437936465&psc=1&th=1&psc=1
disagree, at least with my own case. The ghost inputs of my rocker axis are way to high to be usable even setting a dead zone
Okay well that's not so good then. And no way for you to get a warranty exchange maybe?
Ever tried an external USB Hub? Often ghosting can be related to power supply issues through USB. I have the ghosting in the small movement area so a deadzone easily fixes this for me. But like I said the axis is bound to zoom which is not that big of a priority anyways.