TrackIR vs VR?

[Strawberrybuns]

So I have been playing DCS for about a month now and I have been flying in VR. It's an amazing experience to actually be in the plane especially while operating on the carrier. But my main issue with the VR is how short my play times can be. After about 30-60 mins of wearing the headset i can barely feel my head because it's so numb from the headset, or my head starts to get really sweaty. Performance is also a bit of an issue but I've found ways to make it better. I love flying in VR and I think there's nothing like it, but going through the process of getting everything set up, having to take breaks in the middle of playing, performance, and other things; I'm starting to think that TrackIR might be better. But I'm also hesitant about that because flying flatscreen just isn't the same to me, but I know it will make flying a ton easier.

I'd love to hear different people's thoughts, ESPECIALLY people who have both, or tried both, and picked which one they like more.

[jalsina]

I read these discussions about fps that are only referring to the CPU and/or GPU, are non-sense.
But nobody mentions the graphics settings they have set in their DCSW game.

An example of a way to talk about these fps would be: "I have a 3900 and I am getting 120 fps in the Syria map with all maxed out to the right, running in a 4K 3840 x 2160 27-inch monitor"

I have a rig which is 5 years old with an i7-4790K and 16GB of DDR3 RAM, plus a 3 years old 1060 GTX 6GB connected to a 1920x1080 good monitor and I get +40 fps (+70 fps in night environments), run smoothly with no stutters at all in Caucasus, Nevada and Persian Gulf maps. And my graphics settings are better than average.

Based in what I read in the web, I am sure that a VR set would handicap those fps figures, whereas the TrackIR would not.

[Hoss]

TrackIR for me. I like having my head and my eyes out in the real world. See my HOTAS and keyboard.

[Emme]

VR means compromise. A compromise in the amount of money you need to spend, a compromise in FPS you get, a compromise in the overall quality of the graphics. That's a matter of fact. But having a decent 4k gaming panel like I do and compare it to current VR gen like I did, is still a night and day difference in quality. Another thing is the motion projection which happens if you do not reach at least a 90hz output.

I've done some research on the Pimax as I didn't know this particular VR headset and I came to find that there's not one single DCS footage for this Headset that uses the full resolution. Most videos that show settings are low to mid settings with a massively turned down resolution to gain at least stable 40fps in an empty enviroment. So I already know there is no way that it will look even close to what I am looking at when playing in 4k or even HD and a fully scripted campaign.

Of course after investing into VR you wouldn't go back to a monitor anymore. Me neither, when I had spend +3.000$ on a VR gaming rig. I would proudly live with all the compromises. But you can not deny that these compromises are present!

[Sandhill]

LOL another o' dem chocolate/cherry scotch/bourbon arguments...at least I know that in the end, I am in fact right, otherwise it would matter to me

[Emme]

Sandhill eredeti hozzászólása:

LOL another o' dem chocolate/cherry scotch/bourbon arguments...at least I know that in the end, I am in fact right, otherwise it would matter to me :lunar2019smilingpig:

You're wrong. That's all just a subjective perspective. Nobody needs to agree. But to me it's clear, 'cause if VR would really be in the spot that VR users "claim" it to be (where it should be), then the internet would be flooded by footage like "Revolutionary VR headset that offers full 4k DCS experience at 90hz" instead of every DCS VR footage beginning with people talking about "compromise and VR in the same sentence".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zFCtL8PsYs

That doesn't even come close to what DCS looks like in HD max settings and he's just randomly flying around an empty enviroment. Even if he'd use a RTX 3080 which should at best double his fps he won't be able to get a stable 90hz in a fully scripted mission.

So that's the reason why I think there's not much benefit for going VR these days and not because it doesn't matter to me.

[ziher]

I have no problem with your choice and i see no way we can push this discussion any further without me getting you to use my system, which could be problematic:)
Hopefully my point of view on topic will help OP and potential onlookers to make informed decision.
And yes, VR needs compromises but in exchange it gives 3rd dimension and presence that doesn't exist on flatsceen.

[unknown]

ziher eredeti hozzászólása:

I have no problem with your choice and i see no way we can push this discussion any further without me getting you to use my system, which could be problematic:)
Hopefully my point of view on topic will help OP and potential onlookers to make informed decision.
And yes, VR needs compromises but in exchange it gives 3rd dimension and presence that doesn't exist on flatsceen.

This. You do compromise FPS in exchange for a 3rd dimension. You also sacrafise fps when you fly in 4k in a 2d monitor. VR actually in most games is the equivilent to playing on a duel monitor setup. tri monitor setups actually on average get lower fps in most games. I don't actually know for DCS, but for racing games one of the positives for VR is higher framerates when compared to a multi monitor setup. But the prinicpile is the same. The more pixels you are rendering, the more power is required. You can choose to render below the resolution of the monitor, but that sacrafices visuals in exchange for FPS. Its a balance that has always existed and in the case of DCS, performance has always been an issue.

What ultimately matters is going to vary from person to person. I personally and perfectly fine on my custom graphics settings which lower some of the visuals so that I can run the game at 60 fps in VR with motion smoothing up to 120 hz. It is a good balance of visuals and performance. My headset is comfortable so I generally play for hours. Other people may not find 60 hz to be acceptable. I mean I hear about people complaining about 30fps on a flat screen monitor in FPS games when I think its fine so some of these things bother people at varying levels. What matters is an individual and what bothers them. I cannot tell you what does and doesn't bother you just like another cannot do the same to me.

In turn everything that has needed to be said has been said in this thread and has turned into a rather circular conversation at this point.

[HoboCop]

I agree that there is a/are compromise/s to be made with VR, but these are largely overcome with spending money (annoyingly). The one thing you cannot get without VR though is the experience of that extra dimension! You can feel the size of the cockpit, the sense of speed, height, distance etc.

Yes, there is Nausea, but there would be nausea for that same person if they were flying that aircraft like that in real life too!

Yes, you may fumble for switches / keys but a decent hotas and some voice commands can overcome this.

Yes, you trade off FPS but getting the most expensive hardware you can lay your hands on limits this as much as possible.

Yes, there are comfort issues with some headsets but again, some are very comfy (my G2 is very comfy for example)

It really is subjective and all about personal preference, and each person will prefer their own setup which is fine but what annoys me is that the vast majority of people who try to belittle VR, have never actually tried it, or have only tried it on a poor system and poor headset.

I've had people who have only tried PSVR (for example) try to tell me that VR is really bad and not worth it, then they have tried my setup and played Robo Recall and Beat Sabre and absolutely loved it and said the difference is night and day, and this was only on my Rift S that they compared to the PSVR. The G2 is another level yet again in terms of visuals, audio and definitely in terms of comfort! The Rift S was "ok" for comfort up to about an hour, but the G2 is like a cloud on my face in comparison.

[[ATP]Flo]

It's funny how people who play on monitors always say how bad VR is amd often don't own an own headset. xD Believe this, guys, believe this.

I am happy to trade some FPS and resolution for full immersion and the feeling to really sit in that F14 and when I turn my head around (not just a bit to the side like in TrackIR but completely 1:1) I can see Jester and feel like I'm in TopGun.

I also own the Harrier and the Huey and nothing comes to this when landing on a carrier/platform/building. Played the Huey in 2F lately and it really sucked - so boring.

Like others said: The third dimension, which you can achieve with 2 displays, is the important thing.

Can fully understand that people can't afford a VR-rig and proper hardware but don't just say VR is worse than on the monitor, lol.

VR gives you hands down the better simulation and feeling (after adaptation). TrackIR may give you comfort but it makes the even bigger compromise: less immersion and for many people who tried VR this means less fun.

Best would be to have both to switch around.

[jalsina]

What a huge encyclopedia has become this thread, about VR and TrackIR

ATPFlo eredeti hozzászólása:

It's funny how people ...

I am happy to trade some FPS and resolution for full immersion and the feeling to really sit in that F14 and when I turn my head around (not just a bit to the side like in TrackIR but completely 1:1) I can see Jester and feel like I'm in TopGun.
......

I could end trying VR and explore the benefits for the neck exercise.

[unknown]

jalsina eredeti hozzászólása:

I could end trying VR and explore the benefits for the neck exercise.

I have certainly limbered up as a result. You will not believe how tense that neck of yours is until you have to use it XD.

[jalsina]

unknown eredeti hozzászólása:

jalsina eredeti hozzászólása:

I could end trying VR and explore the benefits for the neck exercise.

I have certainly limbered up as a result. You will not believe how tense that neck of yours is until you have to use it XD.

Don´t tell me. It is one of my fears with these tracking/VR devices.

[Emme]

ATPFlo eredeti hozzászólása:

Can fully understand that people can't afford a VR-rig and proper hardware but don't just say VR is worse than on the monitor, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA49DDZ13LA

Watch this trailer, this is ingame footage! Show me footage of VR that will look like this! You won't ever get this quality with current VR without owning a NASA PC.

The quality difference between VR and 4k is just obvious. If you think that's bs then you probably never seen DCS world in max details on a proper resolution.

Like been said before, it's personal preference if you go screen or VR. But you can't deny the quality differences.

[unknown]

Emme eredeti hozzászólása:

ATPFlo eredeti hozzászólása:

Can fully understand that people can't afford a VR-rig and proper hardware but don't just say VR is worse than on the monitor, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA49DDZ13LA

Watch this trailer, this is ingame footage! Show me footage of VR that will look like this! You won't ever get this quality with current VR without owning a NASA PC.

The quality difference between VR and 4k is just obvious. If you think that's bs then you probably never seen DCS world in max details on a proper resolution.

Like been said before, it's personal preference if you go screen or VR. But you can't deny the quality differences.

I don't think anyone does. And anyone who does hasn't played VR or played the game at super high settings.

I will say that because of the resolution issue and the getting a 3rd dimention, things in VR look a lot better than on a flat screen. I mean I remember seeing onward being streamed and thought it looked terrible. The Medal of Honor game also looked terrible on a flat screen. however in the headset it looks insanely good. I am not sure if its just a trick of the eye or something else, but when you are in the world, things don't look as bad as they do when you are playing on a flat screen. If anything it makes lesser graphics seem photo real.

[HoboCop]

Emme eredeti hozzászólása:

ATPFlo eredeti hozzászólása:

Can fully understand that people can't afford a VR-rig and proper hardware but don't just say VR is worse than on the monitor, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA49DDZ13LA

Watch this trailer, this is ingame footage! Show me footage of VR that will look like this! You won't ever get this quality with current VR without owning a NASA PC.

The quality difference between VR and 4k is just obvious. If you think that's bs then you probably never seen DCS world in max details on a proper resolution.

Like been said before, it's personal preference if you go screen or VR. But you can't deny the quality differences.

You have clearly NEVER used VR! You cannot compare 2d to 2d and say "oh look at the difference!" because that is what you have done right there! You cannot capture VR in a video and watch on a screen.

I have a 10850k, a 3090, a Reverb G2 and 32gb ram. All sliders on max in DCS. It runs just lovely and the graphics look better than they do on my 3440x1440 display, which given the fact that the G2 resolution is higher than 4K there's no wonder! I really do not get people who have not physically tried both who then try to project an opinion because they read about it or watched a video.

So not only are the graphics as good or better, you are also then inside the cockpit, with depth of vision and things around you which flat screen cannot give you.

Lets do the math:

4K = 8'294'400 pixels
G2 = 9'331'200 pixels


So, how is VR not as good as 4K again??

Like I said before, it's fine that people have a preference, but you cannot have that preference until you've tried it! People who peddle nonsense from watching a video or reading about something having never ever done the things they are trying to preach about are simply annoying fools who make themselves look and sound like idiots who are trying to convince themselves they are not missing out. Which, they might not be missing out, they might not like it - they may throw up on their keyboard whilst hovering their harrier onto the carrier . But until they have tried it they really do not know.