Flunking Out of Advanced Training A10C

[goofey]

I have that Advanced Training Campaign for A10C. I haven't played much. But that first mission is aerial refueling and after reading a bunch of posts and trying to do practice refueling on my own I am pretty convinced that I am never going to get that lesson/test passed. Takes way more coordination than I'm ever going to have.

Is there a way just to say the bleep with that one test an move on to subsequent lessons? Or do you stay on the one item until you actually complete it?

Thanks.

Michael

[ZeroReady]

you can skip missions in the campaigns by editing your logbook. the formatting is kind of weird but you get used to it. just curious though, how many days have you spent practicing refueling? its not easy, and may take many, many, many hours to get it right? what kind of hotas do you have? that makes a huge difference as well in terms of how easy or hard it is. maybe you need to put some curves on your pitch and roll axis to soften the controls a bit? more practice.

anyway to edit your logbook open it here with notepad++ C:\Users\yourname\Saved Games\DCS\MissionEditor

scroll down till you find the entry for the campaign, should be called AAT or a10 advanced training or something similar.


at the bottom of that entry you'll see something like ["stage"] = x then under that ["mission"] = xxx_x.miz"

You need to change the mission number to the next number up AND you need to change the .miz file to the name of the next one. back it up before you change anything, then save changes. start the campaign and you should be at the next mission.

[startrekmike]

Refueling is always going to be a really tough thing to learn because so much of it depends on practice, practice, and more practice. It is something that will take time to even begin to successfully pull off. Heck, even when you do get to a point where you can do it, you will find that it never really becomes easy.

My suggestion? Refueling is the combination of precise formation flying, skillful and precise stick and throttle control, and knowing where to focus at various stages of the refueling process. With that in mind, it is useful to work on mastering one part at a time and fortunately, a lot of that can be accomplished by just practicing good formation flying. This will require you to build up the muscle memory required for very fine inputs. Likewise, it will get you used to judging speed of your "target" by eye. It is important to be able to maintain a relatively precise position just by eye and not by knowing exactly what speed your target is going. If you ever ask yourself "how fast is the tanker going and I will just match that speed", you probably need formation flying practice.

The other thing is the refueling probe (or basket when applicable). It is tempting to try to fly the plane into the probe but that isn't really the right approach and it will result in CONSTANT over-corrections and a lot of frustration. It is better to use the refueling aircraft itself as your visual reference. For example's sake, I think talking a bit about refueling from a basket (as is required in some planes) is useful here. When you first start out, you tend to focus on flying your probe into the basket. When you do this, you will constantly over-correct and will probably miss the basket more than anything else. In order to do it properly, you instead need to focus on the refueling pod that the basket/hose comes out of. When you learn where to put your plane in relation to that refueling pod on the wing, you will fairly readily reach a point where you can just get the plane into the right spot and fly it straight into the basket without even really needing to look at the basket at all. I know the A-10C uses the probe and not the basket but I think you see where I am going with this.

Patience is key. Refueling is super frustrating but if you keep at it, you will eventually find that it will "click" and it won't be as hard anymore.

[goofey]

Thanks for the replies.

This HOTAS is Thrustmaster T Flight Hotas X, if that means anything. It is pretty smooth and everything. But the slightest, and I mean toothpick width movement is always a little too much or a little too little.

Many, many people have made the point that you watch the tanker and not the boom, and so I have tried to do that. I creep up to fill the windscreen with the right tanker picture in front of me. Then, slowly but surely I start the excessive creep. I back off a little with a toothpick twitch. And that's when the see-saw motion starts. In and out I go until I finally have to give up. I just can't get fine enough control to stay in position.

[ZeroReady]

Originally posted by goofey:

Thanks for the replies.

This HOTAS is Thrustmaster T Flight Hotas X, if that means anything. It is pretty smooth and everything. But the slightest, and I mean toothpick width movement is always a little too much or a little too little.

Then you need to add curves to pitch and roll. put it at like 20 or 25 and see if that helps.

[X_Deadmeat_X]

I'd echo what ZeroReady mentioned. Make sure you have set a good curve on your both your joystick X and Y axis in the DCS profile for the plane you are flying (and it varies by plane and stick so some experimentation is required).

Setting a value of 20-25 may be a good starting point. The higher the number, the more you initially have to move the joystick to get a set level of input to the control surfaces of the aircraft.

By default the values are linear and while you would think this correct it means you are totally reliant on your hand movements, and the accuracy of the stick, for fine adjustments. It's possible to do these in a linear set up but as you've seen you have little margin for error so it also makes it very easy to end up swinging back and forward (indeed in that scenario the correct action is to back off completely and start again as it's unlikely you'll ever zero them out in time!).

Setting a curve allows those initial movements (the small ones you want when refueling or lining up on a target) to be much more fine grained for what can be a fairly large amount of stick movement.

This means that any correction has much less affect and is much less likely to result in an over control.

With practice to build muscle memory you'll get to the point where you are almost thinking the movement with soft hands on the stick rather than a death grip fighting it.

You obviously retain the ability to have full flight control deflection at full pull of the stick but, curve or linear, say hello to Mr Stall when you get there!

[startrekmike]

Originally posted by goofey:

Thanks for the replies.

This HOTAS is Thrustmaster T Flight Hotas X, if that means anything. It is pretty smooth and everything. But the slightest, and I mean toothpick width movement is always a little too much or a little too little.

Many, many people have made the point that you watch the tanker and not the boom, and so I have tried to do that. I creep up to fill the windscreen with the right tanker picture in front of me. Then, slowly but surely I start the excessive creep. I back off a little with a toothpick twitch. And that's when the see-saw motion starts. In and out I go until I finally have to give up. I just can't get fine enough control to stay in position.

So one thing that you might or might not know is that there is NEVER going to be a perfect throttle setting. You will always be adding significant throttle input back and forth to maintain position. In a way, there is a rhythm to this action where you advance the throttle and pull back so that you don't go too fast or too slow at any one time. Don't try to find a perfect speed and stick to it, try to maintain position with whatever throttle input is required.

[goofey]

Gents:

That is really great advice. And it addresses the exact problems I was having. Will try 20 to 25 and see what happens.

[ZeroReady]

Stick with it don't give up. Tanking consistently is very rewarding.

[goofey]

Tried again today. Didn't make it but I felt more like my speed was matched up as a result of the curves. Kept close but started bobbing around. Getting closer every time though.

[ZeroReady]

I have 1400 hours in DCS between the A10C, F-14, Harrier, F-16 and all the helos. I can refuel in all of my jets, but when I'm plugged in if I lose focus for just a second I lose the tanker and have to reconnect. Like it's still challenging. I'm using a TM Warthog with a 15 cm extension and Trackir. It's still hard to refuel. Keep practicing. Glad your making progress.

[goofey]

Ok have been practicing this all week. I am now able to get "up close and personal" with the tanker and that hose is right in my window. Yet, the boom has only "twitched" twice like there was a live guy on the other end. The rest of the time the boom is stationary. I must be in the wrong position or angle or something. I call precontact, open the door, watch for the "ready" light, etc. but the boom guy is out to lunch or something. What angle is proper for contact to occur?

[ZeroReady]

Is the tanker responding with "Cleared Contact"? The boom wont activate til he makes that call. If he is, you may be too low. When you are in position close enough to the boom for the boomer to start his thing, the boom will actually raise up quite a bit. When it's waiting for you, it is in the lowest position. So try approaching a little bit higher. Make sure your're getting "cleared contact".

[goofey]

He never says cleared contact. He says "Return Precontact." So what do I need to do to get him to say "Cleared?"

[Orlock]

He won't clear you til you're fairly close. Try creeping closer and repeating the radio call until he clears you. You have to be closer than you think, I always think I'm close enough but nope, I'm not.

[goofey]

Are you coming in level with the tanker tail? Or are you below it? Hard to gauge how high to come in.