Keyboard controls non-functional

[escapetomars]

So I wanted to play this game a little to see if I like it before I spend the money on a joystick, but it seems like the keyboard controls aren't just clunky, but literally NON FUNCTIONAL. As soon as you attempt to take off (P-51D mission), the plane veers hard left and crashes (if you press nothing, it will always veer hard left and crash, as if some hidden joystick is uncentered). If you try to correct, it veers hard left and crashes.

WTF? Does this game actually work or are the keyboard controls just a joke the developers implemented for "sh*ts and giggles" to p*ss off anyone without a joystick to keep them from ever bothering to give the game a chance?

I mean, I really want to give this game a chance, it's default map is actually the obscure, tiny country I live in (cool!) but it seems like if they can't even get basic keyboard controls to work properly, it's a risky waste of money to invest in an expensive joystick, etc - when the rest of the game might be as buggy, lazy and non-functional as the keyboard controls.

[Vilab]

DCS use accurate flight model

you will never be able to fly the TF-51 without a good joystick, a proper rudder controller ( twist axis, pedals...) and a good understanding of how propeller driven aircraft works

starts with the su-25t, it is a jet, and it is much much more forgiving

PS : actually you may seek, find, and tick options that make flying easier for the -51.... but Arcade is not the purpose of DCS

[Maki Nishikino]

It pulls to the left because of torque, nothing to do with uncentered controls. Even a Cessna 172 will do this and it's called P-factor. You have to use the rudder to compensate for it.

[Troll Norris]

Like was written above. This is just how the real single-prop aircraft behaves. You need to compensate that by rudder input.

This behaving is caused by prop torque, gyroscopic precession and by slipstream.

Open this video in time 18:00
https://youtu.be/0bP2MH3LqvI

[Insônia]

You misinformed. ehmm..
[thinkingemoji]

DCS provide take off assistance(YAW input) for TF-51/P-51. Keyboard take off is a ok, it makes it easier but constant correction is still required. it may need proper takeoff trim and correct thrust input. proper preflight check, like tailwheel lock etc..
You need a joystick..


btw that's a nice animated 90s documentary. should watch more of this.

ED already considered this. the "MAC" and "flying legend" in future will provide keyboard mouse friendly experience on professional flight model.

[escapetomars]

Ahh, interesting info on the leftward pull, very cool video and info, thanks guys!

However, this still doesn't explain the main problem that the impacts of keyboard inputs are basically random - tap a key for a mili-second and three seconds later the plane rolls hard over in that direction and crashes, there's no way to control anything with the keyboard. Hold a key and it immediately goes into a left or right spin - or it does absolutely nothing at all - and I can tell if it's getting input because the middle stick (or pedals) should move, and sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.

It seems like the game takes input when it feels like it, assigns a random value to that input, then waits 2-5 seconds before actually sending the input to the aircraft.

So keypress =

(random chance of even acknowledging a keypress happened) +
(random delay from keypress to sending a signal to aircraft) +
(random time assigned to "how long" input should last) +
(random strength given to input)

= a f*cking totally unplayable piece of sh*t.

Is this how "real" aircraft work? Because I don't think so. My car doesn't randomize my steering or accelerator input for sh*ts and giggles and I doubt real aircraft work that way either (in fact I know they don't, not a pilot but I've flown a small plane a few times under the guidance of a pilot). It works NOTHING like real life.

I've never pressed the gas on my car for one second only to have the car go "you know what? that seemed like a 5 second press, so I'm just going to give the engine 5 seconds of gas" or turn the wheel hard left to have the car go "you know what? that seems like a slight right to me! let's take a slight right". I mean, really WTF.

How do I know the joystick won't do the same thing?

The same problem persists with both the P-51D and the SU-25, but the SU-25 is already in the air in the missions I played and seems more forgiving overall, so it's not as bad, but it's still unplayable in any serious sense. Why the f*ck would you make a game that didn't take keyboard input in a consistent and predictable way, like controls work on any real life vehicles?

[startrekmike]

Originally posted by escapetomars:

How do I know the joystick won't do the same thing?

It really comes down to the difference in input type between a keyboard and a analog axis (as provided by a joystick). DCS (like any other flight simulation) relies on the player having axis controls for pitch, yaw, and roll for precise control. If you use a keyboard for these functions, you are essentially going from no input to the fullest input possible with nothing in between. This is not really ideal and will not result in a good experience.

Think of it like this. Imagine you are driving a car. You have a steering wheel and pedals that give you very fine and precise control over how much you are turning at any one time and how much pressure you are applying on the accelerator and brake at any one time. If you were to switch the wheel and pedals out for a keyboard, you would lose all fine control would quite likely crash pretty quickly.

Like it or not, since DCS is a flight sim, having fine control of the pitch, roll, and yaw axis is VERY important. A keyboard simply is not going to provide this and is the reason you are having the problems you are having. Eagle Dynamics rightfully assumes that if one is interested in getting into DCS, they probably already have at least a basic flight stick. I mean, it is kinda common sense to be bluntly honest.

There is another problem at play for you as well. Aircraft in DCS respond rather realistically during maneuvers and WILL stall and spin when the player is too aggressive with the controls. By their very nature, keyboard inputs are going to ALWAYS be too aggressive in this context. Remember, a keyboard key input is either completely off (when you are not pressing the key) or all the way on (when you are pressing it). When you are flying a DCS aircraft, that kind of input will ALWAYS get you in trouble.

As someone who has played DCS for nearly ten years. I can say that this is NOT a problem when you have a stick. You may or may not believe me but it is true. DCS is pretty great with AT LEAST a stick as you can have the level of fine control that is required.

To be bluntly honest. Eagle Dynamics should really put a joystick in the minimum requirements. I know that they are eventually going to release a thing called 'Modern Air Combat' that includes some simplified aircraft that will (allegedly) work okay with a mouse/keyboard but that has not happened yet. As of right now, DCS essentially requires AT LEAST a simple joystick to really be playable. A keyboard simply won't cut it on any level.

[Troll Norris]

Also:

When you have car without power steering and driving it through the "rails" caused by heavy traffic, you will notice, the steering wheel might move by itself when you are not holding it. You can also feel the forces pushing to your hands trying to steer the car into those "rails"

The same applies to the aircrafts without power boosters. P-51D uses hydraulics only for flaps, lowering/raising gears and for wheel brakes. So, the forces caused by wind are applied to flight surfaces, this applies to the stick and rudders and determines its "center" position. The wind is just trying to "steer" your flight controllers to the "rails" made by wind. This behaving in DCS is simulated too. There is also simulated the pilot physical limits. Like 30kgf maximum force on stick. So if you fly very fast, just like in dive, the flight controls centering forces will be such strong, that you wont be able to fully deflect the stick.

[Insônia]

Keyboard it just simulate the flight stick input in that cockpit.

Press Rctrl+enter will display virtual axis indicator. it shows the "aircraft stick input".
This is the "real" input, it is directly control the surface of aircraft.

IMPORTANT most modules has no pitch recenter for keyboard. which is a double sword. for keyboard control. afaik only M2000C( FCS control ) will recenter. others only damper back a little bit ( for not exceeding the energy )

However the "stick" speed, gain pace, min step, and dumper effects are not controllable because nature of keyboard input can be never analog. move too fast or too slow will cause problem in aerodynamic. and it is very SLOW when try control it via keyboard. you will find this in virtual axis indicator. it is very slow.

Aerodynamic is a "MESS", you literally fly a FORCE UNBALENCED metal box cross all speed changes, angel changes, and even fuel shifts.
Old aircraft require constant trim to help balance the force, and reduce workload for human
Do you even trim?

Speak of cars. Btw can you enjoy the "race sim" with keyboard only. and turnoff all assistance?

play with those type characters, but without analog input is already difficult.

modern aircraft has a lot of augmentation or FCS. or even direct controlled by computers. human just tell the computer "where to go" "how much to turn", computer will constantly send signal to hydraulics, maintain stable without human interfere.
flying M2000 F-16 F-18 is like driving a Tesla. you can fly it with both of hands off.

If modern airline only provide "buttons" to fly, pilot is completely fine with it. But this will never happens on those old fkers belong to museum already.

As i said. ED is wip on keyboard mouse friendly mode with loads of "input assistance". Dont push too hard on propeller with keyboard. it wont help too much

[Troll Norris]

One more note. At the begining the aircraft steers left, so you push the right rudder pedal. You also shoul'd set about 5 deg right rudder trim and pull stick backward to lock tailwheel and make some pressure on it to keep aircraft easily stable. Once the aircraft get some airspeed and more wind flows around control surfaces, their effeciency highly increases. This causes aircraft to start turnig right, so you have to ease rudder pedals. There is just no sweet spot. Once the airspeed speed is near 100 mph, push the stick bit forward . If you will hold stick fully back, you will stall wings and instantly crash.

The best is to read manual. You will find it in game instalation folder\mods\aircrafts\name of addon\doc