F-14: Needing help with Air Refueling

[lir03]

I've had the F-14 since it came out and in all that time I've only stayed connected to the basket for 47 seconds while refueling. I've trimmed the plane but it still moves up or down and always moves to the right no matter what. I've used bomb mode and auto for the wings. I've even tried the autopilot, alt hold first and hdg hold later. Still can't do it.

Between the poor visibility, the turbulence that can't be turned off (why Heatblur, why?), and needing to use keyboard commands to trim I simply can't get it to stay connected. Any advice? Thoughts? Special autopilot mode I missed?

[fikmeinshizer]

no autopilot mode, just practice. sounds obnoxious but it is all you can really do

use bomb mode for the wings as it makes them hold a set sweep value so you won't get shifts in lift. you also need to counter the drag caused by the boom with left rudder. use the slip indicator under the attitude indicator to see how much you need to put in.

after that you need to simply practice flying formation with the tanker. the biggest thing to remember is that you are flying with the tanker not the basket. make small, TINY corrections in one plane of movement only (so either pitch or roll, never both).

finally input curves can help you get finer control from your stick. I fly with a curve of 10 on both roll and pitch in the tomcat and that seems to help somewhat

[spike2071]

Everything fikmeinshizer said.

The curves are what really helped me properly fly formation with the tanker. And to be honest, I trim the aircraft with a very slight nose down attitude so that I'm never "resting" with the stick. That generally means all my corrections in the Y axis are pulling or easing back pressure on the stick. I never have to push the stick forward, unless I really got out of control.

The nose down trim also encourages me to make small corrections instead of overcoming the initial resting position of the stick and overcorrecting (probably need to grease the HOTAS).

I also trim the plane while flying formation with the tanker before calling precontact. I rarely (if ever) trim while trying to connect or once connected.

I ended up creating a mission with a tanker that would fly straight and level for hundreds of miles instead of an orbit. It was much easier to practice without having to turn left every 50 miles. Once I got the hang of straight and level, turning left wasn't as bad as I expected.

[EODmatt]

I'm finding that my throttle control in F-14 helps me stay in the basket, there is lag when you input power and decrease it. I'm constantly moving throttle to stay in position, adding power before I drift too far back but then taking power off to stay in position, you then need to adjust you pitch every time you add or decrease power. I line up a spot on the tanker and don't move my eyes off of it until we disconnect.

Overall I found the taking experience much better when I switched to VR, this gives you 3d image and you can move your head to see around the obstructions in the F-14 canopy.

I practiced a lot in Harrier which I found to be the hardest to stay in the basket due to the probe offset.

Good luck.

[dan]

47secs.. That's pretty long

[spike2071]

Publicado originalmente por dan:

47secs.. That's pretty long

Hah, I'm impressed he knows the exact number of seconds.

Publicado originalmente por EODmatt:

I practiced a lot in Harrier which I found to be the hardest to stay in the basket due to the probe offset.

Good luck.

I think the Harrier is the easiest to stay in the basket, but toughest to hit the basket. The engines are so responsive that any change in the throttle is almost immediately seen. But they should fire whoever put the probe over there. I hate it. :)

Excellent advice on the throttles, though.

[startrekmike]

Practice is really the only answer here. I know it isn't the silver-bullet solution that some would like but a big part of even beginning to learn air refueling in DCS is learning how to fly very stable and with very precise throttle control. You need to be able to trim the plane and maintain a certain speed BEFORE you even start directly approaching the basket (or boom, depending on the plane). If you are having trouble getting the plane trimmed or maintaining a very specific speed very precisely for long periods, you need to work on that before you can really make much headway in the refueling department.

Another thing to consider is your point of focus as you refuel. With aircraft like the Tomcat, Hornet, Mirage, and even the Harrier, you will eventually get a feel for where the refueling pod (the part that the hose/basket comes out of) should be in relation to your HUD display and such. There are different ways to handle this but being able to find your own system that works is important.

On top of all that. I don't know what kind of controls you are working with but it might be a good idea to find a way to get trim controls on your stick. This leads into a larger issue. It might be controversial to say and obviously there are going to be exceptions but refueling is VERY demanding in DCS and requires very, very precise control. Part of that comes with practice but having the right peripherals will make things a bit easier since you will not have to fight against your controls so much in order to get things done. It is something to keep in mind anyway.

At the end of the day, it is important to make sure you have learned and practiced all the skills involved in refueling INDIVIDUALLY. Breaking this learning process into more manageable parts will help even if it isn't as fast a process as some might prefer.

[lir03]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I'll start putting everything to good use in my next attempt.

I didn't realize Heatblur modeled drag on the probe. It certainly explains why the F-14 keeps drifting to the right on me. Formation flying is relatively easy but refueling is more difficult. I might have to put refueling on hold until I can invest in some rudder pedals... and either a TrackIR or VR headset. Is there a way to trim the rudder to go left a bit? It would help until I can buy pedals.

The F/A-18C, Su-33, M2000C, and AV-8B are all pretty easy for me. I can refuel the F-15 okay but the F-14 is extremely difficult and F-16C is near impossible for me.

The reason I was asking about the autopilot is because a few tutorials I watched/read mentioned to use the autopilot but never said what mode to use.

After making a number of attempts I started timing how long I stayed connected. My highest time in the F-14 is 47 seconds. Up from 20 last week.

[startrekmike]

You really, really shouldn't use autopilot for refueling. It is a trick that MIGHT work in some situations but the moment the tanker turns, the autopilot will not and you will be back to square one. It is a crutch that will cause more problems than it solves in the long run.

Beyond that, I do think that having some kind of headtracking will help but you can probably get by without having to buy rudder pedals (I mean, they help in a lot of things but in this particular case, I am not sure I would outright call them essential).

If the other aircraft are pretty easy, the F-14 shouldn't be monumentally different. It just requires some adaptation of technique and some care when compensating for different drag characteristics. Again, practice will make perfect even if it isn't always a pleasant experience and can be frustrating. You just have to keep at it.

[lir03]

Thanks for all the help everyone. I trimmed the rudder left and adjusted the stick for smaller movements and I was able to completely refuel the F-14. Oh I disconnected a couple times but I did get it done. I appreciate all the advice.

[spike2071]

Publicado originalmente por lir03:

Thanks for all the help everyone. I trimmed the rudder left and adjusted the stick for smaller movements and I was able to completely refuel the F-14. Oh I disconnected a couple times but I did get it done. I appreciate all the advice.

Congratulations!!! The Tomcat takes forever to fill up. Always a good feeling.