Am I being boring?

[Azu-Kun]

I usually play a tanky character with a huge sword, but this time while playing oblivion, it feels like the events that happen are very limited to swinging my sword at something, talking to people, repairing- rinse and repeat.
I don't really steal anything and I don't break into people's houses, I don't have much of spells and I can't sneak good because of my heavy armor.
These things used to not bother me but playing Oblivion like this has been... different...

[joeball123]

Originally posted by Wai:

You can fight as a pure mage in the Arena - and win.

One of the last Arena opponents - the High Elf who carries the Grey Aegis - is completely immune to magical damage and not all 'pure mage' builds have access to good (or necessarily any) summons or Reflect Damage.

Additionally, while reduced spell effectiveness is not the end of the world, the fact that you're required to wear armor in the Arena is somewhat anti-spellcaster, particularly considering that four of the seven magic-specialized base classes don't have any armor skills as major skills and the fairly clear implication that a character's minor skills are generally not supposed to be among their most highly developed skills.

Originally posted by Kai:

Might wanna do the Goblin War quests to get a settlement that pays you weekly and also lets you mess around with goblin war AI.

Frankly, I don't think that's worth the bother - you have to go to Cropsford every time you want to collect, and as with most other leveled gold rewards the amount you're given is a pittance.

[Khaziir Everflight]

Originally posted by WhateverWorks:

Originally posted by AuDHD Khaziir Everflight:

For money for one. Just because you are gifted in magic does not mean you do not need money, and the arena and fighters guild pay well if you do well.

You can make a Charm 100 spell at 25 Illusion if you have access to a spell altar, gaming all merchants in the process. Being able to take slave wages for hard work doesn't mean a person has to, maybe said mage isn't interested in getting stabbed for clout.

maybe they are not, but that would be for OP to decide, would it not? since it is their character. Also, maybe that mage is not interested in mind-manipulation magic because he feels like it is an extreme violation of individual persons rights.

[WhateverWorks]

Sorry, just using the "if it exists my character must do it" thinking. Like doing arena for the money.

[Wai]

Originally posted by WhateverWorks:

Sorry, just using the "if it exists my character must do it" thinking. Like doing arena for the money.

I think that most people will dabble with the "if it exists my character must do it" way of thinking. This type of game is the card equivalent of Solitaire. Why not try everything you think of or hear about if you want to, you are not cheating anyone, or, forcing anyone to do something they do not want to do,

[Wai]

Originally posted by joeball123:

Originally posted by Wai:

You can fight as a pure mage in the Arena - and win.

One of the last Arena opponents - the High Elf who carries the Grey Aegis - is completely immune to magical damage and not all 'pure mage' builds have access to good (or necessarily any) summons or Reflect Damage.

Additionally, while reduced spell effectiveness is not the end of the world, the fact that you're required to wear armor in the Arena is somewhat anti-spellcaster, particularly considering that four of the seven magic-specialized base classes don't have any armor skills as major skills and the fairly clear implication that a character's minor skills are generally not supposed to be among their most highly developed skills.

Joeball, have you tried it? The Grey Aegis is the shield not the Elf. Think on it. (perhaps I was just lucky).

The biggest problems were the Orcs with their 25% immunity to Magicka
and their Berserk Greater Power (which I assume they used as they were tough). Obviously I made sure I had a good supply of health and magicka potions. I had to try the Arena with magic, the same as I had to try with H 2 H. Certainly, it is not for everyone, but, it can be done which was my point.

(My character has only magic as major skills, btw. and I agree, the arena armour is a drawback to it's use by a mage, but, by the same token, would a mage join the Thieves Guild, or for that matter The Dark Brotherhood. For my part, the answer is no. As I do not ever join either faction, and I don't like the Shivering Isles much, if I cross off the Arena and the Fighter's guild, there is very little left. I might as well just junk the game altogether.)

[joeball123]

Originally posted by Wai:

Joeball, have you tried it? The Grey Aegis is the shield not the Elf. Think on it. (perhaps I was just lucky).

You cannot make on-touch or on-target versions of Bound Weapon and Bound Armor spells in the unmodded game, Disintegrate Weapon and Disintegrate Armor don't work because the target has 100% Resistance to Magic, disarming power attacks and blocks (especially the blocks) require rather high nonmagical skills for a supposed "pure mage" even if disarming an NPC would cause them to lose the benefit of any enchantment on it (I don't know off the top of my head if it does or not, but it doesn't work that way for the player character), and disarms, beating on your opponent until their equipment breaks, and pickpocketing / reverse-pickpocketing all strike me as rather questionable tactics for someone supposedly "fighting as a pure mage" even if you ignore any practical obstacles to doing so.

Also, disarm chance on a left/right power attack is only 5% and disarm chance on a block is at best something like 1.25% (Master Perk for Block is a 5% chance to disarm on a successful knockback counterattack, and the chance of a knockback counterattack triggering is 25%), so if either of those is the method that your "pure mage" used to get around the shield then, yes, I would say that you got lucky.

Originally posted by Wai:

(My character has only magic as major skills, btw. and I agree, the arena armour is a drawback to it's use by a mage, but, by the same token, would a mage join the Thieves Guild, or for that matter The Dark Brotherhood. For my part, the answer is no. As I do not ever join either faction, and I don't like the Shivering Isles much, if I cross off the Arena and the Fighter's guild, there is very little left. I might as well just junk the game altogether.)

I do not see any particular reason why a mage would be less likely to join the Thieves Guild or the Dark Brotherhood than most other types of character, and I would point out that at least two of the magic-specialized base classes can readily be played as "thief/assassin with a strong magical bent" without deviating much at all from the class descriptions.

[arottweiler]

Originally posted by Gen:

I usually play a tanky character with a huge sword, but this time while playing oblivion, it feels like the events that happen are very limited to swinging my sword at something, talking to people, repairing- rinse and repeat.
I don't really steal anything and I don't break into people's houses, I don't have much of spells and I can't sneak good because of my heavy armor.
These things used to not bother me but playing Oblivion like this has been... different...

Combine magic with melee which will not only make your character more versatile in combat but adds nicer visual effects than just a blood spattered sword. Add weakness effects to a dagger and use them with damage spells or the Apotheosis staff available to buy in the market district to make yourself really tough for your enemies. If you want to expand on the spells which are quite limited overall then the Midas Spells mod is well worth checking out. It adds hundreds of new spells which need to be created using unique ingredients collected on some very long and tough dungeon quests. It's aimed at a mage build and has some of the most difficult enemies I've ever faced in a mod. The Emero-El liches have such high magical and normal weapons resistances along with master level restoration and destruction it makes them practically indestructible and that's the kind of challenge I like. Part of the fun of the mod is working out new and ingenious ways of killing the enemies you encounter using magic.

For me toughest questline in the vanilla game is the Mages Guild because the mage build enemies are more likely to constantly self heal and use silence spells on you and so Midas is like an expansion on the Mages Guild questline but with much tougher enemies.

https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/9562

Another useful mod is Active Inventory which adds a touch spell you can use on any NPC to view their inventory and add/remove items. It works on followers like the Jemane Brothers so you can use it to give them specific weapons. Give them a fire damage enchanted dagger while you're using weakness to fire spells etc. When I'm closing a gate and have followers I make sure they are using frost damage weapons because most enemies in the Oblivion realm have fire damage resistances. Pre-planning for quests and using intel to gauge on the type of enemy and best loadout adds some strategy to the slayings.

https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/17497

Using the alters at the university are great fun and a reason to close as many gates as you can for the all important Sigil stones.

[Wai]

Originally posted by joeball123:

Originally posted by Wai:

Joeball, have you tried it? The Grey Aegis is the shield not the Elf. Think on it. (perhaps I was just lucky).

You cannot make on-touch or on-target versions of Bound Weapon and Bound Armor spells in the unmodded game, Disintegrate Weapon and Disintegrate Armor don't work because the target has 100% Resistance to Magic, disarming power attacks and blocks (especially the blocks) require rather high nonmagical skills for a supposed "pure mage" even if disarming an NPC would cause them to lose the benefit of any enchantment on it (I don't know off the top of my head if it does or not, but it doesn't work that way for the player character), and disarms, beating on your opponent until their equipment breaks, and pickpocketing / reverse-pickpocketing all strike me as rather questionable tactics for someone supposedly "fighting as a pure mage" even if you ignore any practical obstacles to doing so.

Also, disarm chance on a left/right power attack is only 5% and disarm chance on a block is at best something like 1.25% (Master Perk for Block is a 5% chance to disarm on a successful knockback counterattack, and the chance of a knockback counterattack triggering is 25%), so if either of those is the method that your "pure mage" used to get around the shield then, yes, I would say that you got lucky.

Originally posted by Wai:

(My character has only magic as major skills, btw. and I agree, the arena armour is a drawback to it's use by a mage, but, by the same token, would a mage join the Thieves Guild, or for that matter The Dark Brotherhood. For my part, the answer is no. As I do not ever join either faction, and I don't like the Shivering Isles much, if I cross off the Arena and the Fighter's guild, there is very little left. I might as well just junk the game altogether.)

I do not see any particular reason why a mage would be less likely to join the Thieves Guild or the Dark Brotherhood than most other types of character, and I would point out that at least two of the magic-specialized base classes can readily be played as "thief/assassin with a strong magical bent" without deviating much at all from the class descriptions.

You really are making some wild assumptions, but, overlooking the rather obvious.

(Also, what one person finds acceptable in role play, or for that matter the game in general is for them to decide, surely.)

I play un-modded which may or may not affect the Elf in question depending on how others have modded. That Elf is not invulnerable (vanilla), period. Though on the surface the shield does appear to make him so. And, that is the last I am saying on this matter other than: Have you really thought about it? I thought about it, and I tried out my theory, and "The Arena" can be beaten with magic in spite of the Gray Aegis.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2408950893796797912/07A455FD1CFD5CE941DB53A97EADB1FC143A7470/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

[theo]

Holy crap, and these spammers complain about others derailing topics lol

[arottweiler]

Originally posted by theo:

Holy crap, and these spammers complain about others derailing topics lol

I should have known your contribution would be something like this effort. We're discussing how magic can make a campaign more interesting in response to the OP asking if playing magicless is boring. Hardly derailing the topic when it's on-topic.

[joeball123]

Originally posted by Wai:

You really are making some wild assumptions, but, overlooking the rather obvious.

One, cut the insulting condescension.

Two, 100% Resist Magic should grant immunity to Drain effects and I cannot recall seeing an enemy thrown by a spell that did not otherwise affect them (for that matter, all of the times I specifically recall seeing an enemy thrown by a spell, that spell has killed them or at least applied a lethal DoT), so unless that Drain spell that you have active is actually a buff spell of some kind and you stabbed him to death while "fighting as a pure mage" I do not see whatever supposedly-obvious thing that that screenshot is supposed to be showing.

[Wai]

Originally posted by joeball123:

Originally posted by Wai:

You really are making some wild assumptions, but, overlooking the rather obvious.

One, cut the insulting condescension.

Two, 100% Resist Magic should grant immunity to Drain effects and I cannot recall seeing an enemy thrown by a spell that did not otherwise affect them (for that matter, all of the times I specifically recall seeing an enemy thrown by a spell, that spell has killed them or at least applied a lethal DoT), so unless that Drain spell that you have active is actually a buff spell of some kind and you stabbed him to death while "fighting as a pure mage" I do not see whatever supposedly-obvious thing that that screenshot is supposed to be showing.

Sorry, I did not intend to come across that way. I simply could not understand what you were getting at. I am sorry if I misunderstood, I felt that you were questioning my veracity (which, incidentally, is both insulting and condescending). The screen shot shows the Elf dead beside the Grey Aegis, and the evidence that the kill was by magic. (The one effect which was resisted, and the blue magicka bar).

The Elf is wearing Arena Armour.

I took a shield with me because I thought I might need it. The shield meant I had to equip a weapon, but, actually, I did not use the shield, I was too busy with my three hot keys for potions and with pressing activate on my combination magic spell, he is very nibble, no time to think about anything but consuming potions and casting. I most assuredly did not stab him to death simultaneously with spell casting. The most important effect I used was Drain Health. I also had elemental damage effects, as you can see from the one resist message. And of course weaknesses.

[joeball123]

Originally posted by Wai:

The most important effect I used was Drain Health. I also had elemental damage effects, as you can see from the one resist message. And of course weaknesses.

So in short you defeated him with a bugged game. Enchantments don't only protect the piece of equipment that bear them, and 100% Resist Magic should have completely negated Drain Health, Weakness to Magic, [Element] Weaknesses, and spell-based [Element] Damage.

[Wai]

Originally posted by joeball123:

Originally posted by Wai:

The most important effect I used was Drain Health. I also had elemental damage effects, as you can see from the one resist message. And of course weaknesses.

So in short you defeated him with a bugged game. Enchantments don't only protect the piece of equipment that bear them, and 100% Resist Magic should have completely negated all Drain Health, [Element] Damage, [Element] Weakness, and Weakness to Magic effects.

No, not bugged, the game is actually working exactly as it should. What is armour supposed to do to magic effectiveness? If it did not affect the NPC but did affect the player, that would be bugged.

[joeball123]

Originally posted by Wai:

Originally posted by joeball123:

So in short you defeated him with a bugged game. Enchantments don't only protect the piece of equipment that bear them, and 100% Resist Magic should have completely negated all Drain Health, [Element] Damage, [Element] Weakness, and Weakness to Magic effects.

No, not bugged, the game is actually working exactly as it should. What is armour supposed to do to magic effectiveness? If it did not affect the NPC but did affect the player, that would be bugged.

The 100% Resist Magic effect provided by the Grey Aegis is an enchantment, not a spell, and enchantments are unaffected by Spell Effectiveness. Either your game is bugged, or you did not kill him the way you think you killed him.