Better Cities mod causes crashes in the IC Waterfront tunnel district?

[The base]

Hi,

I believe I have pinpointed the causes of my repeated CTD, whilst mainly traveling in the imperial city with the better cities mod. The CTD mainly, though not exclusively, occurs in the Waterfront tunnel district.

I am at a loss to find an adequate solution to the problem,beside of adopting the nuclear route of deactivating this mod

I have once more enclosed the mods I have currently installed with Wrye Bash; the mods are organised by BOSS:

Active Mod Files:
[xml]
00 Oblivion.esm
01 Cobl Main.esm [Version 1.72]
02 Better Cities Resources.esm [Version 6.0.0]
03 DA Run Fatigue.esm
04 HorseCombatMaster.esm
05 RealisticLeveling.esm
** TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp
** TNR - ShiveringIsles.esp
06 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.5.3]
07 UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp [Version 1.0.0]
08 Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp
09 DLCShiveringIsles.esp
0A Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.5.7]
0B Better Cities .esp [Version 6.0.0]
++ LoadingScreens.esp
0C Natural_Weather_by_Max_Tael.esp
0D _darker_nights_for_nat_env.esp
0E Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp
0F Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp
10 Better Bell Sounds.esp
11 Idle Dialogue.esp [Version 1.3]
++ Symphony of Violence.esp
12 PCSoundMazzy.esp [Version 2.6]
13 GOSH.esp
14 Sounds of Cyrodiil.esp [Version 1.1]
15 Rainbows.esp
16 Cities Alive At Night.esp
17 WindowLightingSystem.esp
18 00 Realistic Player Speech.esp
19 300_Lore_Dialogue_Updated.esp
1A AliveWaters.esp
1B AliveWaters - Koi Addon.esp
1C AliveWaters - Slaughterfish Addon.esp
1D Adult Books.esp
1E All normal clothes buyable.esp
** Book Jackets Oblivion.esp
1F ChaseCameraMod.esp
20 Chapel Tithe.esp
21 DaggerfallBooks.esp
22 Days&Months.esp
23 DialogTweaks.esp [Version 1.2.1]
24 ImprovedSigns.esp
25 Inebriation.esp
26 Security Rebalance-Traps and Bash Locks.esp
27 More Effective Enchantments.esp
28 Oblivion Collectible Cards.esp
29 Personality Idles - Modified version.esp [Version 1.5]
2A P1DseeYouSleep.esp
2B Portable Campsite.esp
2C Camping.esp
2D Q - More and Moldy Ingredients v1.1.esp
** RealWalk.esp
2E SoT_Holiday.esp
2F Unsafe Streets.esp [Version 1.0]
** VA_BetterGold.esp
30 Enhanced Economy.esp [Version 5.4.3]
31 Crowded Cities 15.esp
32 Populated Prisons.esp [Version 1.2]
33 PTRoamingNPCs.esp
34 BookTrackerOBSE.esp
35 Display Stats.esp [Version 2.0.1]
36 DropLitTorchOBSE.esp [Version 2.4]
37 Get Wet.esp
38 kuerteeSittableRocks.esp
39 MiscTracker.esp [Version 1.1]
3A P1DlookHereYou.esp
3B Spell Delete And Item Remove.esp
3C Dynamic Map.esp [Version 2.1.1]
3D DLCHorseArmor.esp
3E DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.8]
3F DLCOrrery.esp
40 DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.6]
41 DLCVileLair.esp
42 DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.11]
43 P1DseeYouSleep - DLCVileLair.esp
44 DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
45 DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.7]
46 DLCSpellTomes.esp
++ DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]
47 BlackLuster.esp
48 CapesandCloaks.esp
49 Classic Books.esp
4A DMACArmor.esp
4B Immersive Weapons.esp
4C MerryBellInn.esp
4D More_Shields.esp
4E Reaction - Additions Only.esp [Version 1.11]
4F DLCThievesDen.esp
50 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.13]
51 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp [Version 1.0.13]
52 Cobl Glue.esp [Version 1.72]
53 Cobl Si.esp [Version 1.63]
++ Cobl Tweaks.esp [Version 1.44]
54 Harvest[Containers].esp
55 GrayFoxOutfit.esp
56 EM_CompInnsleeping.esp [Version 0.9]
57 Better Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary.esp [Version 3.41-Cobl]
++ BDBS - See You Sleep Patch.esp [Version 3.41]
58 BrotherhoodRenewed.esp [Version 1.1.2]
59 FuseFruitMachine.esp [Version 1.0]
5A Hunter Mod.esp
5B MountainShackR13.esp
5C mythsandlegends.esp
5D Naughty_Joana_01.esp
5E PinePeakLodge.esp
5F SingingStablehandInn.esp
60 SleepyCatInn.esp
61 Tavern-Goers 2.esp
62 Travelers Inns.esp
63 VaultsofCyrodiil.esp
64 Apachii_Goddess_Store.esp
65 24HrArenaAliveV2.esp
66 DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
67 DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.11]
68 DLCFrostcrag.esp
69 DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.9]
6A Knights.esp
6B Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.1.6]
6C More Effective Enchantments Knights.esp
6D SM Plugin Refurbish(Merged).esp [Version 1.30]
6E RTT.esp
6F HoarfrostCastle.esp
70 Roads of Cyrodiil.esp [Version 1.0]
71 xuldarkforest.esp [Version 1.0.5]
72 xulStendarrValley.esp [Version 1.2.2]
73 xulTheHeath.esp
74 xulEntiusGorge.esp [Version 1.2.1]
75 xulFallenleafEverglade.esp [Version 1.3.1]
76 xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp [Version 1.2.2]
77 xulChorrolHinterland.esp [Version 1.2.3]
78 xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp [Version 1.6.5]
79 xulBravilBarrowfields.esp [Version 1.3.5]
7A xulLushWoodlands.esp [Version 1.3.3]
7B HoarfrostCastle-LushWoodlands patch.esp
7C xulAncientYews.esp [Version 1.4.4]
7D OblivionCollectibleCards-AncientYews patch.esp [Version 1.0]
7E xulAncientRedwoods.esp [Version 1.6]
7F xulCloudtopMountains.esp [Version 1.0.3]
80 xulArriusCreek.esp [Version 1.1.4]
81 xulPatch_AY_AC.esp [Version 1.1]
82 xulRollingHills_EV.esp [Version 1.3.3]
83 xulPantherRiver.esp
84 xulRiverEthe.esp [Version 1.0.2]
85 xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp [Version 1.1.1]
86 xulImperialIsle.esp [Version 1.6.8]
87 xulBlackwoodForest.esp [Version 1.1.1]
88 xulCheydinhalFalls.esp [Version 1.0.1]
89 Oblivion Collectible Cards UL Cheydinhal Falls Patch.esp
8A xulAspenWood.esp [Version 1.0.3]
8B xulSkingradOutskirts.esp [Version 1.0.2]
8C xulSnowdale.esp [Version 1.0.6]
8D OblivionCollectibleCards-Snowdale patch.esp [Version 1.0]
8E xulCliffsOfAnvil.esp [Version 1.1.3]
8F xulSilverfishRiverValley.esp [Version 1.0.4]
90 xulJerallGlacier.esp [Version 1.0.2]
91 xulTheEasternPeaks.esp [Version 1.2]
92 MythsAndLegends2-EasternPeaks patch.esp [Version 1.0]
93 OblivionCollectibleCards-UniqueLandscapes Merged patch.esp [Version 1.0]
94 ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Forts.esp
95 ImpeREAL Forts + Silverfish River Patch.esp
96 Natural_Vegetation_by_Max_Tael.esp
97 Harvest [Flora].esp [Version 3.0.0]
++ Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp [Version 3.0.0]
++ Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp [Version 3.0.0]
98 Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp [Version 3.0.0]
99 Diseased Corpses.esp
++ Real Lava 1.3.esp
9A Armored Skeletons (LL).esp
9B Cliff_BetterLetters.esp [Version 1.2]
9C Cliff_RiskyInnBeds.esp
9D HUD Status Bars.esp [Version 5.3.2]
9E ExpandedGreetings.esp [Version 1.0]
9F Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.esp
A0 Exterior Actors Have Torches 1.3 DT.esp
A1 fadingtorches v1.3b.esp
A2 2nd to 1st person.esp
A3 GMArcheryRebalance.esp [Version 1.0]
++ Gold Change II.esp
A4 HarderRepairs_5.esp
A5 HelmetFOV.esp
++ Improved Fires and Flames - Increased Sound.esp
A6 kuerteeInventoryIsABackpack.esp
A7 Oblivifall - Closing Time.esp [Version 1.0]
A8 P1DkeyChain.esp [Version 5.00]
A9 PersuasionOverhaul.esp [Version 1.43]
AA RedBag - Friendly Animals.esp
++ Short Grass V3.esp
AB Skill Perk Descriptions.esp [Version 1.1]
AC Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp [Version 3.2.0]
AD ATakesAll.esp
AE Immersive Mining.esp
AF DurableEquipment_10.esp
B0 Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp
B1 RealisticFatigue.esp
++ DA ReducedBackwardsRunningSpeed.esp
B2 RealisticHealth.esp
B3 RealisticForceMedium.esp
B4 PJs Spell Compendium - Spell Requirements.esp
B5 spelliconreplace.esp
B6 MidasSpells.esp
B7 FasterArrows175.esp
B8 Spell Failure Chance.esp
++ Merchants Buy Stolen Goods.esp
B9 StealthOverhaul.esp
BA Deadlier Sneaking 1.1.esp
BB Thievery_Normal.esp
BC BountyReductionOverTime_standard.esp [Version 1.1]
BD No psychic guards v1.2.esp
BE RenGuardOverhaul.esp
BF Denock Arrows.esp
C0 Mounted_Spellcasting_Deadly_Reflex_Compatible.esp
C1 Deadly Reflex Bow Sway.esp
C2 HAZeatanimations.esp
** _darker_dungeons.esp
C3 1em_Vilja.esp [Version 4.04]
C4 Companion Neeshka.esp
C5 bgBalancingEVCore.esp [Version 10.0EV-L]
C6 Oblivion_Character_Overhaul.esp [Version 2.0]
** Better Cities Full.esp [Version 6.0.0]
C7 Better Imperial City.esp [Version 6.0.0]
C8 Better Cities - Unique Landscape Barrowfields.esp [Version 1.5]
C9 Better Cities - Ruined Tail's Tale.esp [Version 6.0.0]
CA Better Cities Chorrol - Knights of the Nine.esp [Version 6.0.0]
CB Better Cities - Unique Landscape Cheydinhal Falls.esp [Version 1.5]
CC Better Cities - Alternative Start Arrive by Ship.esp [Version 6.0.0]
++ Better Cities - MOBS.esp [Version 6.0.0]
CD Better Cities Bravil - Unique Landscape Panther River patch.esp [Version 1.5]
CE Better Cities - Unique Landscape Skingrad Outskirts.esp [Version 1.5]
CF Better Cities - Unique Landscape Snowdale.esp [Version 1.5]
D0 Better Imperial City FPS Patch.esp [Version 6.0.0]
++ Better Cities - COBL.esp [Version 6.0.0]
D1 Better Cities IC Waterfront - Unique Landscape Imperial Isle.esp [Version 1.5]
** Better Cities - Leyawiin Flooded.esp [Version 6.0.0]
D2 Better Cities - Oblivion Collectible Cards.esp [Version 6.0.0]
D3 Think to Yourself.esp
++ BadderFireFX.esp
++ BadderFrostFX.esp
++ BadderShockFX.esp
++ LightSpellEvilRed.esp
D4 MiniMap.esp
D5 DeadlyReflex 6 - Combat Moves.esp
++ Deadly Reflex 6 - HeX NifSE Patch.esp
D6 Falling Leaves.esp [Version 1.0]
++ Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp [Version 1.53]
D7 Cobl Silent Equip Misc.esp [Version 01]
D8 Bashed Patch, 0.esp[/xml]



In addition, I have another problem with the Better cities.esp when rebuilding my bashed batch in Wrye Bash.

Every time I rebuild my bashed patch, a box appears stating , "deactivate these mod prior to patching. Mergeable, but tagged 'NoMerge" , and better cities is always displayed. If I click yes and rebuild it, it ends up with my Better Cities.esp deactivated and the mod doesn't work. If I activate it after finishing rebuilding the patch, it works perfectly.

It's no biggie as I can simply activate the .esp after Wrye finishes rebuilding the patch, but I can't help but feel the problem may be somewhat related to CTD problems I am encountering in the cities; wrye bash highlights the mod in purple, if that's any relevance

[g.r.scott1992]

kool bro

[The base]

,Thank your for your insightful and substantive advise! Now, can anyone else top g.r.scott1992 salient contribution?

PS: I have now notice several WTF? markers in several buildings and taverns in better cities; I presume I am missing some textures, but what?

To reiterate, I am using Wrye bash and boss to install and order my mods

[Craftian]

First off, you have a huge load order, which can lead to instability, especially with older games. There doesn't appear to be any noticeable conflicts in your load order or compatibility issues that I know of, but overhauls can be highly demanding on their own.

I'd suggest that you move Better Cities to be near the top of your load order. The fact that the error markers are appearing suggests that something is conflicting and struggling to process with the content added.

What are the other locations and circumstances that a CTD has occurred? Bethesda games are volatile in general but these are too specific.

Try this and see how it goes.

http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/45266/

[The base]

Originally posted by Craftian:

First off, you have a huge load order, which can lead to instability, especially with older games. There doesn't appear to be any noticeable conflicts in your load order or compatibility issues that I know of, but overhauls can be highly demanding on their own.

I'd suggest that you move Better Cities to be near the top of your load order. The fact that the error markers are appearing suggests that something is conflicting and struggling to process with the content added.

What are the other locations and circumstances that a CTD has occurred? Bethesda games are volatile in general but these are too specific.

Try this and see how it goes.

http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/45266/

g.r.scott1992 and Wizirdi, that's how you are respond to a fellow gamer's plea for help; thank you, Craftian, for your contribution.

The CTD used to typically occur whilst traveling in the IC waterfront tunnel district, but as of lately, it's occurring more frequently more generally in the Imperial city. Hence, I can only conclude that the culprit is the better cities mod, as the game is quite stable outside city locations.

I shall check out your nexus mod recommendation.

If anyone can give more suggestions and helpful advise, like Craftian, I would be in your debt

[[GWJ]Baron_Of_Hell]

Better Cities is a resource hogs. My frame rate in the water front was around 5 but without BC it is over a 100. I'm BC wasn't the only problem but it was big problem. i also have some big detailed textures that I'm sure wasn't helping.

Anyway if you haven't done so you should be use BOSS to sort your load order. Bad load order is a major cause of problems.

For your Wyre Bash problem mods are usually marked no merge for a good reason that is probably stated in the readme. It isn't like it can be done on accident and the author knows his mod better than you so it is best to go along with it.