It just occured to me that Mehrunes Dagon "won" (SPOILERS)

[=CrimsoN=]

Playing through Oblivion and reading a lot about Mehrunes Dagon, as well as the other daedra (they are quite fascinating). After going through the main quest, something occured to me. With the events of the 4th era being complete and utter chaos and the seeming destruction of the 3rd empire...

Wouldn't it appear that Mehrunes Dagon, the primary antgonist of Oblivion, actually won in getting what he wanted. Since he is the prince of destruction, change and revolution and all. it would appear that he actually won, which might be why he hasn't attempted another invasion of Tamriel in the 4th era.

So yeah. Mehrunes Dagon is the real winner of the game...great bittersweet ending.

[BarbarianHeart]

He wanted to take over Mundus though, which he was prevented from doing.

[=CrimsoN=]

Really? I dont think he ever explicitly states his motivations. He plans this invasion and everything, but he isn't the prince of domination (That spots reserved for Molag Bal), so being the prince of change and destruction, his "rule" wouldn't have lasted very long.

Which supports the argument that he never intended to conquer Tamriel (let alone all of Mundas) and instead wanted usher in the end of the Third Era by causing as much chaos as possible, regardless of the success of his invasion. It was guaranteed to break the society of the Empire.

[saltmummy626]

You make a good point nibbles. I never actually thought about it, but yeah. The mythic dawn want to control mundus, dagon himself probably couldn't care less, as long as there is chaos and destruction.

[=CrimsoN=]

Originally posted by saltmummy626:

You make a good point nibbles. I never actually thought about it, but yeah. The mythic dawn want to control mundus, dagon himself probably couldn't care less, as long as there is chaos and destruction.

Do they want to control Mundas or do they want to reach Paradise (which they believe to be something akin to heaven)?

I feel like if they all wanted to control Mundas then they wouldn't utter final words saying they aren't afraid to die and stuff like that.

They are pawns for sure, but I thought that they were only following Mankar Camoran (not even sure if all of them believe in the power of Mehrunes Dagon) because they believed in his vision of a glorious afterlife if they served him. I don't even think they want to control Mundas, they just want a great afterlife (which turns out to be a lie).

[=CrimsoN=]

Gosh, I wish Bethesda maintained its story writing skills from Oblivion. Now its nothing but "stupid evil" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StupidEvil). Doing evil stuff for the sake of being evil without any actual motivations except to be bad.

Now I feel kind of bad for Mehrunes Dagon...poor guy can't help what his sole purpose of existence is...

Did he ask to be the prince of change, revolution and destruction? I dont think so :D

Mythic Dawn deserve to be purged though. They had a choice and chose to be selfish in seeking a vile afterlife, although Im sure some of them may have been pushed into the situation.

[saltmummy626]

Your right, I'd forgotten the paradise stuff.

[wyldefx]

I wish Bethesda had maintained the storytelling skills from Morrowind. The story of the reincarnation of Indoril Nerevar as the Nerevarine was great. Oblivion's storyline was good, though.

[=CrimsoN=]

Originally posted by wyldefx:

I wish Bethesda had maintained the storytelling skills from Morrowind. The story of the reincarnation of Indoril Nerevar as the Nerevarine was great. Oblivion's storyline was good, though.

Yeah thats true. Ill be honest in stating that I really haven't played much of Morrowind, Ive played a little bit and know what its about and I actually like the game concepts, but when I played it I encountered a couple game breaking bugs that just stopped me playing. I should go back and work my way through it.

[LUKE]

You are forgetting Dagon's entire realm of "Oblivion" are entirely banished from Mundus forever because of Martin's usage of the Amulet of Kings! [Remember he shattered the Amulet during his sacrifice] Which hopefully should give you some closure. No person ever again will have to fear the manifestation of Oblivion Gates ever re-opening. Yes, even without a Dragonborn Septim Emporer w/ the Amulet & Lit Dragonfires on the Throne. Dagon is absolutely enraged in fury, he will never be able to physically return to Tamriel ever again, however this does not mean his very being was removed from Tamriel, as he can still dominate followers of his cult via his shrines. He has not attempted to return physically to Tamriel in the 4E because he simply cannot and will-not. :D

[=CrimsoN=]

Originally posted by Strider:

You are forgetting Dagon's entire realm of "Oblivion" are entirely banished from Mundus forever because of Martin's usage of the Amulet of Kings! [Remember he shattered the Amulet during his sacrifice] Which hopefully should give you some closure. No person ever again will have to fear the manifestation of Oblivion Gates ever re-opening. Yes, even without a Dragonborn Septim Emporer w/ the Amulet & Lit Dragonfires on the Throne. Dagon is absolutely enraged in fury, he will never be able to physically return to Tamriel ever again, however this does not mean his very being was removed from Tamriel, as he can still dominate followers of his cult via his shrines. He has not attempted to return physically to Tamriel in the 4E because he simply cannot and will-not. :D

oh crap! youre right! I forgot about that detail (pretty huge detail too). I cant imagine that he isnt trying to find some way to return to Mundas though, but youre right, he's pretty much stuck in Oblivion.

It seems as if Dagon still has some power though, but this is limited to his shrines as he is able to send (deploy? lol) Dremora from his shrine in Skyrim.

I imagine he reveled in causing some chaos though, but he certainly doesn't win as I previously thought.

[LUKE]

I am very confident those three dremora in his shrine in Skyrim are reminisce from some of the gates, hiding there for 200 years, if they were not, they would be out butchering unafraid of death. Now aware they are not immortal anymore, knowing their soul cannot return to oblivion apon death - they will not be reborn as another dremora and now they are afraid of death. nothing from oblivion can be allowed to be summonded for longer than a minute with the now passive dragonfires. Since you can remove their hearts, and see their dead physical body as an object, the only possible explination are the gates allowing them into our plane. They simply cannot return back to Oblivion now, not even their immortal soul. I can only speculate thus far - but I am also fairly certain they are stragglers from the battle of Bruma who easily retreated to the north, into unsuspecting Skyrim.

[=CrimsoN=]

Thats an entirely reasonable and plausible theory, given that their bodies dont dissipate upon death. Another element that I overlooked.

What if Mehrunes simply (and I use that term lightly since Im sure it isnt simple) invaded another realmn of Oblivion? Could he then attempt to invade from that conquered realmn?

[////]

the only daedra lord powerful enough to threaten other planes was jyggalag. that was before other lords cursed him with madness, and before he became sheogorath... altho wiki states only jealousy, i remember reading in some book that they cursed him due to his power (he sucked in parties, like sheogorath himself states).

chaos or not, but i'm sure that daedras don't abuse each other without drastic (even for their own standards) consequences.

[wyldefx]

Originally posted by Strider:

You are forgetting Dagon's entire realm of "Oblivion" are entirely banished from Mundus forever because of Martin's usage of the Amulet of Kings! [Remember he shattered the Amulet during his sacrifice] Which hopefully should give you some closure. No person ever again will have to fear the manifestation of Oblivion Gates ever re-opening. Yes, even without a Dragonborn Septim Emporer w/ the Amulet & Lit Dragonfires on the Throne. Dagon is absolutely enraged in fury, he will never be able to physically return to Tamriel ever again, however this does not mean his very being was removed from Tamriel, as he can still dominate followers of his cult via his shrines. He has not attempted to return physically to Tamriel in the 4E because he simply cannot and will-not. :D

This, too, is true. Of course, the game lore violates that immdiately afterward if the gate from Sheogorath is still open.

[The Rock God]

Originally posted by wyldefx:

This, too, is true. Of course, the game lore violates that immdiately afterward if the gate from Sheogorath is still open.

That gate doesn't break the rule. It doesn't allow things from his realm to enter Mundus. The only ones who can go through it are people from here.