Creating/casting an Open Very Hard Lock spell... impossible?

[idigweeds]

According to the best information available to me ... you would have to learn a lower level open spell first and have already cast it. Then you would have to have a 100 level alteration skill. I have met these requirements, but still cannot cast the spell I made in the Spell Maker. So how is it done? Has ANYONE actually done this successfully? I don't want any hearsay. I want to talk to the person (or persons) who have actually done it.

[Jubsy]

I had an open very hard lock spell that I made on my save and made another one just to be sure. My Alteration is at 96 so not sure about it having to be leveled up to 100. Does the magicka cost exceed your total points? I turned the "area" slider on the spell making menu all the way down to cost as little magicka as possible. Playing un-modded btw

[Elthrael]

Open Very Hard Lock is a custom spell. You can give it an area of "0", meaning it will be a simple "On Target" spell, or you can give it some area, which will increase its cost dramatically. Since it is very rare if not non-existent that there are many Very Hard locks lumped together, it makes no sense to do that anyway. Open Very Hard Lock on Target should cost no more than 43 Magicka at 100 Alteration.

If for some reason your Magicka reserve isn't high enough, you can't cast the spell. Even Orcs, Nords and Redguards, who start with 30 Intelligence, get 60 Magicka at the start as a result, so that shouldn't be the case.

That said, your Intelligence could be Damaged due to a spell effect, making your Magicka pool really small. Remember, Damage is a permanent effect that can only be restored by using "Restore" potions or Chapel Blessings. Check your attributes (F1 and click on the Health/Magicka/Fatigue bars, and then on the first tab). If your Intelligence is low or even 0, you don't have enough Magicka.
Try drinking a Restore Intelligence potion (or make one with Clouded Funnel Cap and Alkanet Flower), or going to a Chapel to heal your attributes.

Sorry if I'm saying stuff that's obvious, but other than that I really can't see why you couldn't be able to cast it. I have an Open Very Hard Lock spell in my spellbook and I cast it all the time. Playing with all the Unofficial Patches, OBSE, a few graphics mods, no gameplay mods other than "faster sleep".

[Wai]

If you can obtain the Fortify Magika/Absorb Magika Transcendent Sigil Stone you can use it to fortify your magika 50 points by enchanting an item of clothing. By the same token, for a lesser effect, enchant some clothing with fortify intelligence. You can use soul gems for this and you can have several items of clothing. If you use zero weight items (there are lots of zero weight hoods and robes in the game) you can carry these without cost and just wear when required (the are some single point clothing items available and a very few extra wrist irons in the game). Lesser Sigil stones will work too, by smaller amounts. You may have to close a few gates using save and reload before you get the sigil stone you need.

(PS: You can fortify all your clothing using Stones, if you have the patience to obtain enough. Total points 450.

Or you can play around with multiple spell castings, but, having never bothered with this I can't give you the details, for a buff of about 1000 points! - I read this somewhere on-line, possibly on this forum so, if interested you should be able to search to find more details.)

[Melkolf]

I've done it, plenty of times in so many runs. Talk to me...

...but I'll say nothing different to what others have already said.

[Other]

One minor point it looks like no one has mentioned yet - the requirements to cast a spell use your base skill (the skill you would have naked and with all effects on you dispelled), so if you are trying to meet the skill requirement with an item or spell that boosts your alteration skill, that won't work. Boosting your skill will make it cheaper to cast, so it isn't useless, it just won't open up the Master/Expert/Journeyman/etc categories if you don't have the natural skill high enough yet. Which category a spell is in depends on the base cost, so you can sometimes make the spell a little weaker in some aspect to get it to drop down a category.

[Elthrael]

Other původně napsal:

One minor point it looks like no one has mentioned yet - the requirements to cast a spell use your base skill (the skill you would have naked and with all effects on you dispelled), so if you are trying to meet the skill requirement with an item or spell that boosts your alteration skill, that won't work. Boosting your skill will make it cheaper to cast, so it isn't useless, it just won't open up the Master/Expert/Journeyman/etc categories if you don't have the natural skill high enough yet. Which category a spell is in depends on the base cost, so you can sometimes make the spell a little weaker in some aspect to get it to drop down a category.

Indeed, I was about to point that out too. "Alteration 100" means with no Enchanted items, Fortify Skill effects etc.

[Heimdall313]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3098210241

Your Alteration skill text is white, and says you're a Master in Alteration like my screenshot, right?
You can make Open Very Hard Lock on Target at a Spellmaking Altar. It's entirely possible to cast, it works, I use it on the character above, quite successfully. That glass armor is not enchanted, its half broken from a random bandit, I just put it on to cover the man cloth.
I've played Oblivion for a long, long time, and have done so much magic work that I'm banned from UESP for correcting them too many times.

The posts above me are correct though. Check you have enough magicka to cast the spell (which should be pretty easy if you have 100 Alteration), make sure your skill text is White, 100 skill, and says Level: Master like my screenshot. If anything is Red, it's Damaged or Drained and can most likely be fixed by praying at any church altar. Skingrad, Chorrol, Cheydinhal, Bruma.

[Melkolf]

Elthrael původně napsal:

Other původně napsal:

One minor point it looks like no one has mentioned yet - the requirements to cast a spell use your base skill (the skill you would have naked and with all effects on you dispelled), so if you are trying to meet the skill requirement with an item or spell that boosts your alteration skill, that won't work. Boosting your skill will make it cheaper to cast, so it isn't useless, it just won't open up the Master/Expert/Journeyman/etc categories if you don't have the natural skill high enough yet. Which category a spell is in depends on the base cost, so you can sometimes make the spell a little weaker in some aspect to get it to drop down a category.

Indeed, I was about to point that out too. "Alteration 100" means with no Enchanted items, Fortify Skill effects etc.

Aren't you both talking about armour items? Robes and clothing and rings etc do not reduce spell casting ability. Thus enchanted clothing will work - well it has done for me.

[Other]

Melkolf původně napsal:

Elthrael původně napsal:

Indeed, I was about to point that out too. "Alteration 100" means with no Enchanted items, Fortify Skill effects etc.

Aren't you both talking about armour items? Robes and clothing and rings etc do not reduce spell casting ability. Thus enchanted clothing will work - well it has done for me.

Nope. Spell effectiveness doesn't matter when you are talking about the presence or absence of skill perks, because spells and fortify gear are temporary bonuses and can't give perks*. To cast a Master level spell, you must have the Master level perk, which unlocks at natural naked skill of 100, and not before. Similarly, a spell that requires 25, 50, or 75 in the relevant skill requires the corresponding perk, from a natural naked skill at that level. The only thing that would count is a bonus coded into the game as an ability, and the vanilla game doesn't have any abilities that add to any of the spellcasting skills (abilities do exist for Alchemy and Security - the Frostcrag Spire alchemy lab and the Skeleton Key). A mod could certainly add something like that, though.

Where spell effectiveness might matter is if you are using a spell to fortify a casting skill to get the discounted casting cost, if you are right on the edge of having enough mana to cast the spell. If you have a 50 Alteration skill, but you need 100 to make a spell cheap enough that it fits under your maximum mana, then a 50 point fortify (or absorb) alteration will only work at 100% spell effectiveness. If you have 80% effectiveness instead, then that 50 point fortify will only actually give you 40 points in the skill, for a net skill of 90, and the spell would still be too expensive.

*There are two perks in the game that a spell can give you, because they are not actually coded as perks. The Master perk for armorer (never break hammers) is just a consequence of the breakage chance formula going to 0% once you hit 100 skill, so a spell can give you that. The Expert Mercantile perk (allowed to invest in a store) is implemented as a script condition, and it was coded to check your boosted skill vs 75; this is probably a bug, and some mods rewrite the condition to check your base skill instead.

[Elthrael]

Melkolf původně napsal:

Aren't you both talking about armour items? Robes and clothing and rings etc do not reduce spell casting ability. Thus enchanted clothing will work - well it has done for me.

Like Other said, you need 100 Alteration without any external boosts. Boosting your skills via magic (enchanting, shrines, potions or otherwise) will net you some of the benefits of increasing the skill (like reduced spell cost), but NOT the actual perk.

Since spell schools' only "perk" is a hard cap on which spells you can cast (i.e. 75-99 will not allow you to cast Open Very Hard Lock, only 100 will), boosting your Alteration from say, 90 to 100 with an Enchanted ring or armor piece won't allow you to cast the spell. Without mods, at least.

Other původně napsal:

*There are two perks in the game that a spell can give you, because they are not actually coded as perks. The Master perk for armorer (never break hammers) is just a consequence of the breakage chance formula going to 0% once you hit 100 skill, so a spell can give you that. The Expert Mercantile perk (allowed to invest in a store) is implemented as a script condition, and it was coded to check your boosted skill vs 75; this is probably a bug, and some mods rewrite the condition to check your base skill instead.

Huh, I know Armorer worked that way, but I didn't know why. Thanks!

Mercantile is fixed in the UOP, I think. You still need a separate fix to not die of boredom leveling Mercantile by selling one friggin arrow/potion/whathaveyou at a time since you only gain XP per transaction (stacks count as one transaction).

[Wai]

Elthrael původně napsal:

Melkolf původně napsal:

Aren't you both talking about armour items? Robes and clothing and rings etc do not reduce spell casting ability. Thus enchanted clothing will work - well it has done for me.

Like Other said, you need 100 Alteration without any external boosts. Boosting your skills via magic (enchanting, shrines, potions or otherwise) will net you some of the benefits of increasing the skill (like reduced spell cost), but NOT the actual perk.

Since spell schools' only "perk" is a hard cap on which spells you can cast (i.e. 75-99 will not allow you to cast Open Very Hard Lock, only 100 will), boosting your Alteration from say, 90 to 100 with an Enchanted ring or armor piece won't allow you to cast the spell. Without mods, at least.

Other původně napsal:

*There are two perks in the game that a spell can give you, because they are not actually coded as perks. The Master perk for armorer (never break hammers) is just a consequence of the breakage chance formula going to 0% once you hit 100 skill, so a spell can give you that. The Expert Mercantile perk (allowed to invest in a store) is implemented as a script condition, and it was coded to check your boosted skill vs 75; this is probably a bug, and some mods rewrite the condition to check your base skill instead.

Huh, I know Armorer worked that way, but I didn't know why. Thanks!

Mercantile is fixed in the UOP, I think. You still need a separate fix to not die of boredom leveling Mercantile by selling one friggin arrow/potion/whathaveyou at a time since you only gain XP per transaction (stacks count as one transaction).

The OP said, quite clearly, in the original title post that he/she has met the 100 level of Alteration needed to cast Master level spells but does not have enough magika to cast the spell created at the Alter.

There are ways, as I and others have explained, to boost magika very significantly. Some locks cannot be opened except with a key, but, OP's post indicates that it is not one of these locks which he/she is trying to open.

Personally, I would suggest, so long as the lock is NOT one of the programmed to only open with a key, carrying a master lock pick is much less messy than using a really "expensive" spell. I find the master pick quite satisfactory. Biggest drawback is that lock picking if caught is a crime while spell casting is not. But high sneak and chameleon negates that drawback. (A master pick is available from Nocturnal's quest at level 10)

[Elthrael]

Wai původně napsal:

The OP said, quite clearly, in the original title post that he/she has met the 100 level of Alteration needed to cast Master level spells but does not have enough magika to cast the spell created at the Alter.

You need to re-read what the OP said. They said they think buying a low-level Open spell and having an Alteration skill of 100 are the requirements, and that they believe they have met these requirements. Nowhere does it say how that was achieved, which is one reason why they would be unable to cast the spell (simply seeing Alteration 100 in your character sheet isn't enough if it's boosted by enchantments or magic, you don't get the "can cast Master-level Alteration spells" perk). How much Magicka they have wasn't mentioned anywhere in the post.

Also, IF the OP has an Alteration of 100 (without any enchanted items), then an "Open Very Hard Lock on Target" spell costs 43 Magicka. That's not a very expensive spell. Even if you're a level 1 Orc/Nord/Redguard, with 30 Intelligence, that still nets you a max Magicka pool of 60, more than enough to cast an "Open Very Hard Lock on Target" with a full Magicka bar. So it's safe to assume low (maximum) Magicka isn't the problem. And even then, me and Heimdall both pointed out that their Int might be damaged.

[Wai]

Elthrael původně napsal:

Wai původně napsal:

The OP said, quite clearly, in the original title post that he/she has met the 100 level of Alteration needed to cast Master level spells but does not have enough magika to cast the spell created at the Alter.

You need to re-read what the OP said. They said they think buying a low-level Open spell and having an Alteration skill of 100 are the requirements, and that they believe they have met these requirements. Nowhere does it say how that was achieved, which is one reason why they would be unable to cast the spell (simply seeing Alteration 100 in your character sheet isn't enough if it's boosted by enchantments or magic, you don't get the "can cast Master-level Alteration spells" perk). How much Magicka they have wasn't mentioned anywhere in the post.

Also, IF the OP has an Alteration of 100 (without any enchanted items), then an "Open Very Hard Lock on Target" spell costs 43 Magicka. That's not a very expensive spell. Even if you're a level 1 Orc/Nord/Redguard, with 30 Intelligence, that still nets you a max Magicka pool of 60, more than enough to cast an "Open Very Hard Lock on Target" with a full Magicka bar. So it's safe to assume low (maximum) Magicka isn't the problem. And even then, me and Heimdall both pointed out that their Int might be damaged.

No - You need to read what they have said -

"According to the best information available to me ... you would have to learn a lower level open spell first and have already cast it. Then you would have to have a 100 level alteration skill.

I have met these requirements, but still cannot cast the spell I made in the Spell Maker. "

[WhateverWorks]

I think we can all agree that the most likely issue here is that OP is hitting 100 Alteration with the help of enchantments. Or some other form of user error. Because anyone who's played this game much at all in the what...17 years since it was released knows you can definitely get/use an Open Very Hard Lock spell. Not like there's much of a reason to, if you have 100 alteration then you're a high enough level to go get the Skeleton Key.

[arottweiler]

You need to have learnt a spell first before you can create one of that type at an alter and the open very hard lock isn't available to buy from any of the vendors so can only be created at an alter. The OP has bought a low level open spell so that type becomes available at an alter.