Training beyond the Master level

[sahyan51]

This might be a stupid question, but....If I reach the Master level in a skill (let's say a magic skill) so that I can buy and cast the most powerful spell in a given school, is there any point in training further? Suppose I'm at, say, level 85 in a skill; I've bought and can cast the most powerful spell in that school. Does training up to, say 90, or above, do me any good at all? Does it add anything (power, range, duration, whatever) to my top-level spell, or should I just not bother to train anymore?

[Hazode]

Master is unlocked at skill level 100, it is expert that is 75 and above. So, yes, if you're at 90 or above, but not yet 100, it is worth training more.

But, as I said, master level is when you reach 100 in a skill. You cannot get your skill higher than 100 either, unless you have a fortify skill thing active, but depending on the skill raising it above 100 has very little effect. For example, my current character is a master Alchemist. I also have a fortify alchemy spell that boosts that up to 175 I believe, but my potions will be made at the exact same strength/worth

[Darth Cannabis]

Originally posted by Hazode:

Master is unlocked at skill level 100, it is expert that is 75 and above. So, yes, if you're at 90 or above, but not yet 100, it is worth training more.

But, as I said, master level is when you reach 100 in a skill. You cannot get your skill higher than 100 either, unless you have a fortify skill thing active, but depending on the skill raising it above 100 has very little effect. For example, my current character is a master Alchemist. I also have a fortify alchemy spell that boosts that up to 175 I believe, but my potions will be made at the exact same strength/worth

Yeah and the truth is even attributes are limitted in what they provide past 100, but skills are typically not worth pushing past 100.

http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Attributes

http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Skills


1st link is to UESP, (Unofficial elder srcolls pages) page on attributes and will teach everything you could ever want to know about attributes in game. The 2nd link is the page on skills. Thou I can sum that one up simply in regards to your question. Atheltics and Acrobatics, are the only skills that provide anything past 100. They will continue to effect run speed and jump height, up to a max value of 255. Clicking on any attribute/skill will take you to page on that particular one, and tell you what if anything it does past 100 and if so what it does and does not.

[sahyan51]

It seems I didn't frame my question perfectly. (And I do apologize for my mistake about when Master level opens.) Let me try again. Let's use Destruction as the example (but the question could apply to most skills). Suppose I'm at Level 85 in Destruction, and (and this is the crux of the question) I have and can cast the most powerful Destruction spells in the game. My question, then, is, since I can't get a more powerful spell (because there isn't one), what, if anything, do I gain from going up in levels? Does my fire skill, for example, get stronger or longer-ranged, when I hit, say, Level 90? The way the game seems is that going up in levels simply allows you to cast more powerful spells, *until* you've got the highest they have. Once you do...is there *any* benefit at all to increasing in levels?

[AwkwardMan]

There are more powerful spells out there than the exert level spells, specifically I believe there is a fire one called enemies explode. In addition, if you wanted to create an outragiously powerful custom spell you would likely need to be a master of whatever school that spell was in.

[Darth Cannabis]

Yeah we understood. Its just that your not to master level yet. With the example you gave, your still using expert level spells. Master level is 100, and there is no training past it, only boosting with equip (which as explained earlier, is not really useful). 75-99 is expert still.

It seems what you want you actually NEED to know is where to find the master level spell merchants. So once agian, a referal to UESP and every premade spell in game and where to find it. http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Spells
*to have access to some of the master spell ssold by certain merchants, you need to be accepted to arcane university or glitch*

Now as far as spell schools themselves, yes you should go all the way to 100, regardless of if your gonna use the master level spells, or just the expert, as it will reduce mana cost for spells of that school. That would be the benefit of pushing to master, and to continue using expert spells.

[AwkwardMan]

Originally posted by Darth Cannabis:

Now as far as spell schools themselves, yes you should go all the way to 100, regardless of if your gonna use the master level spells, or just the expert, as it will reduce mana cost for spells of that school. That would be the benefit of pushing to master, and to continue using expert spells.

Not really disagreeing with your point, but I'm just gonna throw it out there that this is only true if your luck is at baseline. Without getting into too much detail, every 5 points of luck above 50 acts like 2 effective levels in every skill. (100 is still the max effectiveness though).

[sahyan51]

So, if I have a particular spell, at its highest version, going from, say, level 80 to level 90 does give any bonus to that spell. Once I have the highest level spell (and I'm not saying I do; the question's hypothetical), going up in the skill doesn't help at all? By the way, as to that Enemies Explode spell, I know about it, but have maxed out in magica, and as a mixed melee/spellcaster character, I'll never have enough magica to cast it, so, absent that, there's really no point in training in Destruction, to improve the spells I have, right? Sorry if I'm becoming annoying. I'm still kind of struggling to be sure I have it right.

[Darth Cannabis]

Originally posted by sahyan51:

So, if I have a particular spell, at its highest version, going from, say, level 80 to level 90 does give any bonus to that spell. Once I have the highest level spell (and I'm not saying I do; the question's hypothetical), going up in the skill doesn't help at all? By the way, as to that Enemies Explode spell, I know about it, but have maxed out in magica, and as a mixed melee/spellcaster character, I'll never have enough magica to cast it, so, absent that, there's really no point in training in Destruction, to improve the spells I have, right? Sorry if I'm becoming annoying. I'm still kind of struggling to be sure I have it right.

Well now your presenting a problem, that is solved thru the adavanced lessons in restoration, and the art of magicka stacking.

The spell system in oblivion, allows you to stack effects of spells upon one another. 2 spells, with the same magical effect, will stack the effects, as long as the spells are 2 different spells. This means if you for example, cast a spell that boosts magicka by 50, and a different spell that does so by 30, you have 80 more magicka for as long as both those are active.

Now using restoration, and spell altar to make your custom spells, allow you make as many fortify magicka spells as needed, as long as you name them somehting new. Using this method to stack multiple fortify magicka effects, allows you to temporally boost your max magicka as high as you need. To utilize this temporary max magicka, you simply use a welkyd stone to fully restore it, then unleash the most powerful spells you can make or imagine.

I have made and unleashed spells on enemies at times that cost upwards of 1000 magicka. Examples range from full 2 minutes of paralysis, a 2 min fire burn with 2 minute long demoralize (quite hilarious, ussually find enemy 2 or 3 cells over dead), 2 minute long 100% chameleon (quite expensive, but is basically godmode), and 2 minute long dominate spells. The only limits are the extent of the custom spellmaking and your imagination.

So yeah investing restoration is how you can blow the top off your magicka limits.
Otherwise, just let it the destruction train to 100 as you use it, just for the magicka reduction on spells.

To point blank answer the hypothetical, (which we have answered several times now). going from 80-90 will reduce magicka cost of your expert spells some. once you hit 100 then you are master and have highest level, there is no further mana reduction, and there NEVER was any type of damage bonus to begin with. It always has been, access to spells, and magicka cost.

[Darth Cannabis]

This will answer all your questions about destruction in particular, including some notes you should really check out as a melee/spellcaster mix at the bottom.
http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Destruction
Take careful observation of the weakness to effect and how to better use it.

[AwkwardMan]

Also, one thing to keep in mind, if you have a spell that has a fortify magica effect and some other effect, but the spell fortifies you magica by more than it costs, each time you cast the spell, the fortify magica effect will reset and the net effect is you can basically cast the spell for free so long as you keep the chain going. This is excellect for situations where you need to heal but are low on magica or something. Do note that once the fortify effect duration expires and you don't refresh it. You will be compeltely out of magic, which could be bad.